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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Adult material Vs. anti Adult Material/Corporate (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mindpunisher
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There seems to be a divide in the community by those that do corporate non adult material, and those that play nightclubs theatres that use Adult Material.

For some reason the non adult performers seem to look down on those that do the adult material, and refer to their work as being "classy." And anyone who does Adult material as being cheap and somehow unworthy.

To me it really is about which market you serve. Neither one is above the other. I have known performers(hypnotists) that have made an absolute fortune doing adult material for many many years successfully.

Corporate work has nothing to do with being classy (although it may be classy)Its more to do with not rocking the boat being safe and not offending anyone. Its about preserving the careers and reputations of those that make the decision to booking them. Classy is an objective opinion.

While those that serve the adult market deliver a completely different set of criteria. None is better than the other. You can and will get good and bad performers in both markets.

Corporate or Adult or both - are choices made depending upon which market is open to you.

Neither is better than the other.
Floyd Collins
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I do both, and love each show I put together. It goes back to the MAP principle that I speak about here often. Material -> Audience -> Performer each has to complement each other. Some even say comedy mentalism cheapens the whole thing.

I disagree, if you are not doing mentalism for entertainment then why are you? Is the question I ask the purists? Each performer will find there niche and when they do they will protect it and say that is the only way!!! This seems to be the biggest problem with acceptance of multi talented people in our craft. I just wish I knew who makes all these rules!!
The thing I find funny is a lot of us are musicians as well. Odd that no one ever tells someone playing classical guitar that there is only blues and that’s the way every guitar should be played.

Floyd
No one said it would be easy, or did they?

Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information.

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage

http://www.collinscomedymagic.com
DT3
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Cool thread.

Anybody here ever hear of Bill Cosby?

D
RSD
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I do about 70% dirty, 30% non-dirty. When non-dirty find out what I do, they treat me like I am less than them. It really does make me laugh. In fact, a thread got really heated on this fact alone.

Some of you may be interested to find out that although most of my dirty shows are colleges/nightclubs, the amount of corporate clients chosing my dirty show over the family one has increased significantly. Most of the bookers in the companies are saying the dirty is fine as long as it doesn't cross the line, and expose themselves to damages. They say they like to be treated like adults, and enjoy seeing exactly what they are thinking. I was always told that adult doesn't work with corporate. I think it's an old wives tail that corporate always wants family. I was surprised the most. don't me get me wrong, there will always be a place for non-dirty shows in the corporate world that will never change, but some are liking the alternative.
ThomasBerger
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The way to look at this is by asking--
who makes good $ by performing a gig xxx or a clean act?

You can check out the fee rates here as an example.
As the fees go higher, you need to be cleaner and more "professional".

http://www.motivationet.com/speakers/fees/1

Always look at a working model of success.

Cheers.
Tom
RSD
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Tom,

Agreed. I have noticed that for sure. There is a rather well know hypnotist here in Toronto that works in Dubai for royalty once or twice a year. I'm sure that pays a pretty penny. I find that get I booked a lot in bulk doing dirty shows, but family show definitely pay more. How hard is it to maintain a good rep doing both? That's a challenge I am having.
Dr Spektor
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There is also a way to talk about "taboo" in witty ways without becoming Andrew Dice Clay - the key is the ol' Mantra "Know thy Audience" and figure why you would want to bring in that material in the first place... if its expected OK but everyone loves to hear about sex in some ways... but I can see in Dubai you better be dan careful and balance the chances of losing an ongoing well paying client versus the art of innovation... starving artists and all that.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
tctahoe
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Tom, you mentioned that fee difference between xxx and clean
I think we need to remember also there is a difference between xxx rated show and an R rated show.
There is also I difference between doing a “speaking” engagement and a “show”.
There is plenty of money to be made, real money, doing R rated shows.

Also I believe there is a middle ground. It doesn’t have to be xxx or clean… the most popular movies TV and music are somewhere in middle.
Nathan Pain
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Ask Chris Rock how he feels...good friend of Oprah & dirty as a.....I know he's not a mindreader, but it's all entertainment....


Nathan
...
Floyd Collins
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RSD

There is a difference in being a bit risky (middle of the road) with your audience and playing it striate. I never use bad language that’s just not my style. But when I am doing a comedy club there is a huge difference in what I might say or what bit of business I will put in the show.

I too find that a lot of my clients, who book me for their corporate, have seen me in a club or in a different setting. You have to make sure you use the M.A.P participle and everything works out. When someone goes to a college venue they are expected to perform to that audience, when performing for a wedding you are expected to bring your material for that setting, does not matter your location I think it is expected that the performer will perform to the tastes of the audience. You don’t have to go all the way to X rated to achieve that.

If you don’t use the bad or offensive language then you are known for not using anything offensive and trusting that you won’t will help in the corporate arena. You can still appeal to all tastes and venues by selecting material that lends itself to each.

Floyd
No one said it would be easy, or did they?

Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information.

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage

http://www.collinscomedymagic.com
John C
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We must admit we've all let our guard down at an adult gig while folks were egging us on and making their own jokes and innuendo. It's easy to join the fray. I don't consider myself a blue humor entertainer but when the opportunity arises I mirror the guests on occasion.

J
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2008-12-29 02:58, ThomasBerger wrote:
The way to look at this is by asking--
who makes good $ by performing a gig xxx or a clean act?

You can check out the fee rates here as an example.
As the fees go higher, you need to be cleaner and more "professional".

http://www.motivationet.com/speakers/fees/1

Always look at a working model of success.

Cheers.
Tom


Again it depends upon the market. When I was doing regular (hiring the theatre myself)large shows it was the adult show that attracted big crowds. All my additional bookings university circuits and clubs were booked on that basis.

It also depends upon the show and the performer. Just because something is adult oriented or corporate doesn't make it good or bad. Its an understanding of what your market wants. that's what the true definition of being professional means.

If I do a talk or seminar for a corporate it is completely different from those old adult shows. Which I made a lot of money from.

Tom you are basing your criteria on the criteria of the agent. that's just their criteria. I have always got the best jobs myself. Being professional is delivering what a certain audience wants not the catagory of audience you serve.

Its also a marketing principle that to try and appeal to everyone is a form of professional suicide. I think you are better off being VERY good in one or another.

Again its not about being dirty or clean..its about being VERY GOOD at serving a particular market. Just being clean or just being totally dirty won't make you a success.
ThomasBerger
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MP
I agree with most of what you
say.

A few differences however--
The criteria are not from the agents...
they are from the market.

Agents don't even know what you do most of the time.
Market forces determine how successful you are and the fee.
Repeat bookings and more demand get you higher on the ladder (and fee)

Also, performing for a bureau for corporate is ALSO a niche.
I agree to market to everyone is to market to no-one,
but the link **is very much a niche market**.

I know of no more lucrative market than this one
in our business, that includes tradeshows.

You need to be very good, that is a given.
That determines how high you are on the ladder.

I have no experience in booking 1000 people theatre,
but I can see that it is a valid lucrative market.

I disagree with this bit--
>>Being professional is delivering what a certain audience wants not the catagory of audience you serve.<<

My approach is that of direct marketing--
find your market first then create a product, not the other way around.
It sells you more product and reduces probability of failure.

Otherwise we basically agree, I think it's most definitions we differ on.

Cheers.
Tom
mindpunisher
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>>>I disagree with this bit--
>>Being professional is delivering what a certain audience wants not the catagory of audience you serve.<<

Well doing a show/talk or whatever worthy of getting high fees repeatedly (in my opinion) is professional. The catagory is irrelevant. The agent you mentioned needs specific requirements to meet the needs of his clients. your ability to serve those clients well is also related to your professionalism. But that would also apply to any market including an adult market.

Also market is dependant upon location and timing.

I agree with you every catagory is a niche. My point is none is better or more professional than the other. Its down to choice and opportunity as to which one you enter. And how well you serve that market. We are all in the marketing business first and foremost. Mentalism/hypnosis/speaker secondary. Or we should be.
dmkraig
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There's something that has been left out in the talk of dirty vs. clean.
Yes, you have to know your audience.
Yes, you have to give them what is appropriate.

However pay will also depend upon the quality of the performer. I don't care if a lousy perform plays clean or dirty, he or she is still a lousy performer. In fact, I would add that the better the performer, the dirtier he or she can be. Johnny Carson was great at getting away with dirty comments and innuendo. He was a great performer. Neither Leno or Letterman can get away with it the way Carson did. Ferguson may be able to do so in the future, if he gets a better time slot.

I'd rather see a great performer play clean or blue go to a lousy performer just because he or she is clean.
Floyd Collins
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Quote:
On 2008-12-29 23:51, dmkraig wrote:
There's something that has been left out in the talk of dirty vs. clean.
Yes, you have to know your audience.
Yes, you have to give them what is appropriate.

However pay will also depend upon the quality of the performer. I don't care if a lousy perform plays clean or dirty, he or she is still a lousy performer. In fact, I would add that the better the performer, the dirtier he or she can be. Johnny Carson was great at getting away with dirty comments and innuendo. He was a great performer. Neither Leno or Letterman can get away with it the way Carson did. Ferguson may be able to do so in the future, if he gets a better time slot.

I'd rather see a great performer play clean or blue go to a lousy performer just because he or she is clean.


You are certainly correct; pay will be dictated by the quality of the performer.

If you are getting booked only a few times a month one bad show ( and it happens to the best ) can set you back to ground zero in the ratings. If you are in a market where you are competing against many well known performers your chances of being the one who stands out is less than if you are in a market where you’re the only one offering this type of entertainment. In my market area I think that most of the performers are good at what they do and provide a very well crafted and quality entertaining show.

With that said, some of the best still cannot pull off a adult show and become risky (dirty) their style and material does not lend itself to it.
No one said it would be easy, or did they?

Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information.

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage

http://www.collinscomedymagic.com
Ken The Klown
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>>>>>My approach is that of direct marketing--
find your market first then create a product, not the other way around.
It sells you more product and reduces probability of failure. >>>>>

.....except artistically, where it pretty much guarantees failure.
ThomasBerger
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>>.....except artistically, where it pretty much guarantees failure. >>

So you are basically saying I am guaranteed to fail after 15 years of
full time performance??

Tom
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2008-12-31 03:37, Ken The Klown wrote:
>>>>>My approach is that of direct marketing--
find your market first then create a product, not the other way around.
It sells you more product and reduces probability of failure. >>>>>

.....except artistically, where it pretty much guarantees failure.


Actually no. Direct marketing requires you research what your clients want. Therefore "artistically" you can put your focus where it needs to be.

A good marketer but average performer will always outperform a great performer who can't market themselves. You see it in ever type of business over and over. Its those that know how to market themselves that make the most money.
Ken The Klown
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>>>>Actually no. Direct marketing requires you research what your clients want. Therefore "artistically" you can put your focus where it needs to be. >>>>>


Van Gough painted what he wanted. What he saw.

Housepainters do "what the client wants."

Yes, Van Gough died broke. A good housepainter can live quite comfortably.


Perhaps a better example would be Bob Dylan vs. a wedding band. Bob went electric at a time when his "clients wanted" him to stay folk-y. A wedding band plays "what the client wants".

Bob Dylan is wealthy and artistically successful.
Wedding bands have been replaced by guys with CDs.
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