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Bill Palmer
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Is this the same wood that is called Bengkirai? If so, it is denser than water, so it will not float. There are several woods that have this characteristic. Lignum vitae is one. Pau Ferro is another.

This may be the same wood that the wands that came with Tom Frank's Phoenix cups was made from.
"The Swatter"

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deadcatbounce
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Andre..

Let me know how you get on with it. Are you turning it yourself?

Regards,

DCB
"With every mistake - we must surely be learning..." George Harrison.
doublelift
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Quote:
On 2009-01-29 02:45, Bill Palmer wrote:
Is this the same wood that is called Bengkirai? If so, it is denser than water, so it will not float. There are several woods that have this characteristic. Lignum vitae is one. Pau Ferro is another.

This may be the same wood that the wands that came with Tom Frank's Phoenix cups was made from.


I have a set of the Phoenix cups in my small collection and I recall the wand being referred to as Iron wood. I have no source other than my memory on this and that isn't fool proof! Boy what a huge gap in the rolled edge of the cup! I had forgotten about that.
doublelift
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All this Mercury Wand stuff has me thinking about a trip to Home Depot and the Wand material section....
andrelimantara
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Quote:
On 2009-01-29 02:45, Bill Palmer wrote:
Is this the same wood that is called Bengkirai? If so, it is denser than water, so it will not float. There are several woods that have this characteristic. Lignum vitae is one. Pau Ferro is another.

This may be the same wood that the wands that came with Tom Frank's Phoenix cups was made from.


Bill,
I'm not sure if it's the same wood or not but yes it's denser than water. If you keep it in water for long time it will harder and become stronger. The color more like red-ish / black-ish.

Do you think is it the same ?


Quote:
deadcatbounce wrote:
Andre..

Let me know how you get on with it. Are you turning it yourself?

Regards,

DCB



DCB,

I'm not turning it my self. I have a good friend who has a workshop. So I made it through him.

It's on progress. I put quite of details on them so need quite some time to do it

I'll let you know once it finished

Cheers
Andre
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
Bill Palmer
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It could be the same wood. There are several different woods called "iron wood."

Some of them are very toxic when turned and require a particulate mask.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
JamesTong
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Just wondering how many types of hardwood or ironwood are there available around the world?
doublelift
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Quote:
On 2009-01-31 06:54, JamesTong wrote:
Just wondering how many types of hardwood or ironwood are there available around the world?

I expect we need a wood expert to even make a close answer to that.
Thankfully some of the so called exotic woods look crappy to me so no need for exotic to satisfy my taste. Birdseye and burls look like mother nature on crack to me. Now a nice grained oak looks nice and orderly. Ooo well that's personal taste.
JamesTong
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Agree. We really need a wood expert in order to understand more about hardwood around the world.
Faster
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I'll take a stab at an answer, at least in terms of both (1) functional and (2) commercially viable lumber.

I'll also presume the use of "hardwood" is meant in the same sense as the lumber industry uses the term. That is, there are hardwoods and softwoods and there are no other kinds of wood. I.e., "hardwood" is not being used here to mean ONLY ironwood, but ANY species of woody angiosperms.

Hardwoods are either Dicots or Monocots, though not all dicots and monocots produce a woody structure large enough to harvest and use. A quick (but inaccurate) distinction is that monocots grow new branches from the inside/top of the tree. Think bananas, palms, grains and grasses. Monocots are generally not commercially viable. They are structurally weak and fall apart under use (there are exceptions, such as Bamboo and the outer/older growth of the Royal Palm).

Dicots are your rosewoods, oaks, elms, cherries, apples, black beans, walnuts, etc, as well as grapevines, daisies and roses. They form branches which in turn branch, which in turn branch. New branches form on the outside of the existing trunk or branches, not from the inside and not at the top. Dicots are generally what are meant when people talk about "hardwood." They account for 96% of the species of hardwoods that produce commercially viable lumber, 77% of hardwoods in general (whether commercially viable or not) and 76% of all hardwood and softwood species combined.

Hardwoods (angiosperms, 277,000 species) are the most diverse group of trees, shrubs and grasses. Their adaption is mind-boggling, at least compared to softwoods (gymnosperms) which number around 840 (conifers, cycads, gingko and gnetophytes). For every species of softwood, there are roughly 370 species of hardwood.

However, softwoods vastly outnumber hardwoods in pure count of trees as well as locations on the earth where they can grow. Softwoods range from sub-polar to sub-polar latitudes, whereas most hardwoods live in tropic and subtropical latitudes with some living in temperate zones. Its estimated that as many as 3000 softwood trees exist for every 1 hardwood tree.

"A Guide to Useful Woods of the World" (2nd edition) as well as many other sources, many available on the web, lists the Class of Dicotyledons ("dicots") as having 64 Orders, 469 Families, 11,700 Genre and 212,000 species. If we add monocots, well, let's not. They aren't usually made into lumber.

A rough summation is provided as: Approximately 70K to 125K current plant species are thought to produce a "woody structure," namely trees, shrubs, vines and lianas. Of these, 20K to 40K are arboreal (trees or tree-like shrubs or tree-like grasses such as bamboo). Of these, about 5K to 10K are harvested by local craftsmen and commerce, with commerce having the low-end at about 1K to 4K species.

Of the 1K to 4K commerce hardwoods in the world, only about 300 are functional as structural hardwood lumber. The rest is either softwood or used as caming, paper pulp, plies for sheet goods, mulch, firewood and, if unique in properties, accent colors in a larger piece of work.

Almost every country has something they call "ironwood" but this is a different species from place-to-place. The USA Southwest has Tesota, sometimes called Arizona or Desert Ironwood. Central America has Cocobolo, actually a rosewood. The North American Atlantic coast has Hornbeam, a member of the legume (bean) family. Inland from there, along the Appellation Mountains, Great Planes and Great Lakes, we find Eastern Hophornbeam which is actually from the Birch family but has a similar-sounding name. The Caribbean has Lignum vitae. India has White Thingan. Indonesia has Bangkirai.

As you can see, the USA has at least three ironwoods, each unique to its range. India has three, I believe. I generally dislike lumping all of the African nations into simply "Africa," but to make things easier to digest here, African has over twenty, but what is called ironwood in one area is called by another name somewhere else. South America has three that I'm aware of, and none of them are known as ironwood outside the range where they grow.

Brazil, for example, has an ironwood (in their language, "pau ferro") that most of the rest of the world calls "Purple Heart" or "Violetwood." Why doesn't Brazil call it Purple Heart? Because they don't otherwise have an ironwood, I guess. Why doesn't the rest of the world call it ironwood? Because they already have at least one ironwood. They don't need another.

Bottom line: "Ironwood" and "Oak" and "Cherry" are all common names used by local people. They do not describe a species, nor even a genus or family for that matter. There is no Standards Organization or government agency that dictates what will and will not be called ironwood. There are no criteria for a species being called "ironwood" except for this one: If the locals call it ironwood, then it's ironwood.

We now have something in the USA called "Brazilian Cherry" which is in no way related to the Cherry genus (Prunus). It isn't even a fruit tree. It's a legume (bean) in the genus Hymenaea. We called it "cherry" because the lumber has a similar appearance to American Black Cherry (Prunus serotina) and because it's now more readily available in the USA than real cherry lumber. It isn't called cherry in Brazil where it comes from.

The trouble with trying to count "ironwood" species, then, is that you have to (1) find every subculture on the planet that uses the term in their local idiom, and (2) determine the species that subculture is referring to.

OK, so now you know more about hardwoods than you ever wanted to.

And you have a definitive answer to the question, "How many ironwoods are there?" The answer of course is, "It depends." Smile
marty.sasaki
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One off topic note, I always thought that this was a fun fact, balsa is a hardwood.

Back on topic, I've used adhesive tubing to make a few wands, one black and one red. I've been thinking of making aa red one with a core made from a drumstick. I don't know what they are made out of, but they are a good weight and the way the wood is cut means that they won't split very easily.
Marty Sasaki
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Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
andrelimantara
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Quote:
On 2009-01-31 06:18, Bill Palmer wrote:
It could be the same wood. There are several different woods called "iron wood."

Some of them are very toxic when turned and require a particulate mask.


Bill, FYI, the iron wood in my country is called "ULIN" wood....
You may or may not familiar with the term Smile

Cheers
Andre
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
cupsandballsmagic
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Quote:
On 2009-01-29 02:45, Bill Palmer wrote:
Is this the same wood that is called Bengkirai? If so, it is denser than water, so it will not float. There are several woods that have this characteristic. Lignum vitae is one. Pau Ferro is another.

This may be the same wood that the wands that came with Tom Frank's Phoenix cups was made from.


I had a Fender signature Stevie Ray Vaughan Strat with a Pao ferro fretboard, that was lovely to play. I'd love a wand in that!
Tony Thomas
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Wanted to provide an update to this thread. My Mercury Wand lost it's sheath as well. I found a role of heat shrink tubing from my local Harbor Freight (Lowe's & Home Depot were no help). The shrink tubing I bought was 10MM X 5M. It cost about $3 for a 5M role. I also bought a cheap heat gun for $10 (not a pro grade, but it worked fine). I cut the tubing to size. There was some writing on one side of the heat shrink tubing. I lightly sanded the writing off and then sanded the rest of the tubing so any scuffing or discoloration would match. I then put it on the wand and heated it up. It worked like a champ. The look and feel is great. Mine is slightly less rubbery and think than Ammar's original. But the grip is still excellent. My only question is how long it will last until before it needs to be replaced. The original lasted me about 2 years. I would suspect that this might need to be replaced every year, but the cost is cheap.

After shrink wrapping my mercury wand I put the heat shrink tubing on my two silver scepter wands. They look much better black and silver.

BTW - the link to Ammar's repair instructions is no longer on his site (at this time anyway). If anyone has downloaded the specific instructions, it would be helpful to post. Thanks...
From the Encouraging Magic of...

Tony Thomas

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Sir Richard
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I had my rubber tubing on my Ammar wand slip completely off so I just squirted some contact cement inside the tubing and slipped it back on; sucker hasn't budged since, that was over a year ago.

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
Mark Ross
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I've never had a problem with the shrink wrapping coming off, but twice had a bubble develop in the area I grip for the wand spin. Ammar's instructions to place the wand in the oven reduces, but does not completely eliminate, the bubble.

With the information above, maybe I'll try replacing the wrap. I am now using my Moonlight bloodwood & ebony wand for C&B, so if I screw it up, it's not the end of the world.

Mark
Bill Palmer
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If you will puncture the bubble with a pin, then reinsert the wand into the oven, the bubble will probably go away. There is a possibility that there is something underneath the rubber cover.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Mark Ross
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Thanks, Bill. I'll give that a try.

Mark
Bill Palmer
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If it doesn't work, let me know.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
jazzy snazzy
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Regarding ironwood, I've had requests for ironwood street wands but certain types are hard to come by. The hornbeam variety can still be found in the Maine woods but is not available commercially. Desert ironwood looks really nice, similar to cocobolo but the max. length is 0nly 12". I do have lignum vitae, a nice bluish green wood.

As Faster's excellent post indicated, there are many varieties called ironwood.
Most are difficult to obtain without actually vsiting each locale.
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