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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » REEL MAGIC MAGAZINE - TV For Magicians » » Ofeensive language in reel magic (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Kozmo
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I love the dealers but I also love selling direct....its up to you....i really love it when people buy it!

thanks

koz
epoptika
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Quote:
On 2009-01-31 10:54, sleightly wrote:
Words can have many different meanings. Many, many words we use commonly today were horrifically obscene in their original context. That doesn't stop us from using them, unknowing of their disgusting origins.

Language mutates, changes over time. The words don't matter, what does matter is intent. If someone is using words to deliberately wound, they reveal their own pettiness, bias and insecurity.

*We* control our own speech, our own ideas and how we wish to be affected by others words.

To be horrified by an utterance of a word seems ridiculous absent the context. Are there appropriate times/venues for specific language? Certainly, but once you start banning words, it is a short step to banning books and ultimately restricting free speech...

To resort to what some would consider "foul" language is not unlike raising your voice when you should reinforce your argument. It has value (shock-value perhaps) but in some circles establishes character and opens dialogue that might otherwise be restricted.

That being said, as Ecclesiates reads, "to everything there is a season". Knowing the appropriate time/location/audience is the key to avoid excessive alienation. You don't want to offend too many as you'll have no one to talk with, but choice of language and specific expression of ideas will also draw those interested in your ideas and method of delivery...


Good post, Andrew. There is definitely a right time & place, etc.

I've been known to swear like a drunken sailor (frequently) but I know not to do it in the presence of genteel folks. I don't appreciate hearing it when I'm out with my wife or taking my mother out for tea & biscuits nor did I tolerate it at my bar in the many years I tended bar. I listened to many a drunken fellow protest "... but it's a bar!" as I was tossing him out the door (after due warning).

I think it makes a great deal of sense from a business point of view. Is anyone going to drop their subscription because there are no expletives? People will, however, not buy it if it offends their sensibilities.

Enjoyed meeting you at the Magi Fest, Kozmo, I've not had a chance to watch the stack of magazine DVD's that I left with but I'm looking forward to them when I get back to Florida. (Still chuckling from your anecdote about the Canadian episode.)

For those who were not at the Fest you missed the previews of the Reel's upcoming interview/tour of Mike Caveny's home with its magnificent magic treasures. Send your subscriptions in now!
Close.Up.Dave
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It's questions like this that should be answered by the work of George Carlin.
davidpaul$
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I applaud your decision Ted. I am offended by by the "F" bomb and other words of similar ilk especially the way Regal used it. You or anyone else has a right to say and write and record what you want and I have a right not to buy it. After the last issue I decided my money would be better spent elsewhere. I have reconsidered. We aren't a communist country (yet).
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Jerskin
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People are still offened by language in 2009? Wow am I out out-of-the-loop.
GrEg oTtO

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Fred Johnson
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Apparently ther are a lot of Gospel Magician readers.
epoptika
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Since Kozmo has already announced his decision not to allow potentially offensive language in future issues of his video magazine I guess further discussion of the issue is moot - but I'll add a couple comments just the same.

I am neither a gospel magician nor a church-going person. However, I try to respect the feelings and opinions of people who are. I admire the work of David Regal (and George Carlin) but I thought the repetitious use of "the expletive in question" seemed forced and contrived. And offensive.

There is no foul language that I have not used when angered or annoyed or stressing a point and I hardly notice when people swear in personal conversation, however I avoid the company of anyone who swears constantly and who does not consider the company they are in before blurting out the "F" bomb and similar strong language. I am not offended when I read it in fiction or hear it in a movie (within reason) but I just don't like to encounter it in the context of a magic magazine. If I were a parent with a 14 year old interested in magic I would not permit him/her to subscribe to anything containing such language and, again, I applaud Kozmo's wise decision.

Just my opinion.
MLDupree
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I see no reason to have foul language in Reel Magazine. I also applaud your decision. Keep up the good work.
Mike Webb
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Keep up the good work Koz!
Bertrand Thornley
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Quote:
On 2009-02-03 21:59, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:


Two years later he got caught cheating on his wife. Interesting what lurks in the hearts of men....


that's gods honest truth right there. Grown men who are offended by naughty words almost always have much nastier thoughts in their head. Its actually the same kind of thinking that goes on in some middle eastern cultures.(WARNING: that statement is a generalization and in no way reflects the entirety or the beauty and complexity of any Middle Eastern culture!!) The ones that chop off your hand for violating "morals". The so called men are afraid of womens ankles and then end up raping them in private and murdering people who disagree with them. Its a level of development that uses a kind of infantile repression towards things in human nature that are perfectly natural and really neutral in FACT, but good/bad in cultural belief.

So there are religious sects in Iraq and ones in America that function from the same developmental level! Isn't that interesting...who would have guessed?

I explained all that; not to be a smartypants, but because its important to understand. There will be peace on this earth only when grown men decide to actually grow up and make honesty--with themselves--the first measure of their Virtue.

On the other hand, its perfectly reasonable to take expletives out of a video that will inevitably be seen by children.

OK rant is finished. at ease
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." Tom Robbins

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mormonyoyoman
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Quote:
On 2009-06-16 03:30, Bertrand Thornley wrote:
Grown men who are offended by naughty words almost always have much nastier thoughts in their head.


Out and out falsehood, expressed as a blatantly bigoted generalization.

Look, I know you hate Christians and evidently Muslims too. No need to advertise; there are plenty of people here who agree with you.

*jeep!
--Grandpa
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
Bertrand Thornley
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That's not a falsehood Chet. Its based on common sense as well as legitimate psychodynamic theory and many many years of academically accepted and verified developmental psychology. Why would you say I hate Christians?...or Muslims. I hate no one. But I really dislike the self-serving hiding behind some counterfeit piety. I carefully and precisely said my statement was not aimed at all Muslims. Most are very good people. Likewise, there are many Christians who truly live the teachings of Christ and should be commended for thier service and magnaminity of spirit. Your response seems--and I could be wrong--to come from a position of victimhood. It has a tone of persecution. that's unwarranted. You'll have to work that out with yourself. Basically, I'm saying I hope no man,woman or child is judged--or actually believed to be less a person or child of God by the curse words they use. That would be morally wrong by confusing the inside with the most trivial gestures of the outside. Where is the wisdom or compassion there. There is none--just human childishness. Aren't there more important matters at hand in a spiritual sense or even basic human sense? Of course there is!! So lets get to it!

Sincerely
Bert
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." Tom Robbins

Personal Revelation: I'm not a hippopotamus
mormonyoyoman
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Your use of "almost always" betrays your actual feelings.

--Grandpa
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
Bertrand Thornley
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Quote:
On 2009-06-16 16:38, mormonyoyoman wrote:
Your use of "almost always" betrays your actual feelings.

--Grandpa

what? I'm totally confused by that. You have bonked me with your clever yoyo.LOL
Really though, my "true feelings" are none other than what is said and explained.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." Tom Robbins

Personal Revelation: I'm not a hippopotamus
the fritz
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I personally am pleased you decided to remove this content, Ted. I think it adds a touch of extra class to the product. I am no saint (actually I would never argue against anyone calling me a sinner!) but I have always personally found swearing/coarse language to be a turnoff in artistic presentations, whether it be music, drama, magic, etc. I'm not saying it isn't sometimes a very effective way to convey the depth of emotion a person is trying to articulate surrounding a topic, but I just always found it in bad taste.

Actually, I wonder how many of the magicians here who would argue for keeping the language in the product would advise other magicians who are trying to get repeat bookings to use this language in their performances. For that matter, I wonder how many of these magicians use swearing in their own performances.
the fritz
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By the way,

Language or not, thanks for a great product, Ted. I look forward to each new issue. I only wish it were monthly!
Carrie Sue
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Thanks to Fritz for his comments. Men need to remember that female magicians also are watching these videos, and whether it's for entertainment or education, I firmly believe you don't have to be dragged through the mud for it.

Magicians, like other entertainers, will benefit from being more classy in front of their audiences, whether they are in person or else. Being classy entails watching your phraseology, keeping a civil tongue in your head.

I stopped getting Reel Magic because of the coarse language. I may be reconsidering that decision now.

Carrie
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Kozmo
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Hey carrie,
come back! Smile

koz
Geoff Williams
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I'm a huge fan of Reel Magic (and not because Kozmo made some bad judgement calls by putting me on it a couple of times). I heartily applaud his willingness to listen to the magic public and make adjustments for the betterment of the product.

I'll always be looking forward to the next one.


A fan,

Geoff
"Saját légpárnás tele van angolnák."

(Hungarian for "My hovercraft is full of eels")
mormonyoyoman
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Geoff, I like your eyepatch!

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
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