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Pauldela Special user U.K 882 Posts 
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I agree with Ortiz perormances, but I only have two of his DVDs not my cup of tea and goes against what he says in the book. That said I havn't barley seen ANYTHING on him apart from that, so who the heck am I to talk? I trust what somone said above me, he's probably had the crows almsot in tears with laughter!
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I'm also a big burger fan. I too enjoy a big mac. |
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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Let's just say that a lot of what was flying around when the book came out was directed at Darwin -- and not the book -- emotionally instead of rationally. In fact, it later came to light that some of those most vehemently criticizing both Darwin and the book hadn't read it. Rumor? Possibly. Kaufman recently labeled the book as "tripe," but as was pointed out on his forum by a member there, he wasn't saying that while he was selling it.
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Alewishus Inner circle parts unknown 1227 Posts
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On 2009-01-28 07:51, Ben Train wrote: Why does Richard hate Darwin? A. Short answer even?
Sack subs, ok Ross?
We miss you asper. |
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Pauldela Special user U.K 882 Posts
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They got in a fight over a woman
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts
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On 2009-01-28 15:44, Mobius303 wrote: Well I know Allen and Steve and they'd disagree with you. I don't know Harry but I'm guessing he'd agree with you, but not because you are right - merely because he's Harry. To be blunt, your writing that statement is either a hamfisted troll (in which case - it worked, well done!) or an indication that you know nothing about card magic.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Pauldela Special user U.K 882 Posts
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I was joking by the way
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts
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On 2009-01-28 16:07, Open Traveller wrote: I know the details, but it's not my place to divulge them.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Here's what I see on this thread:
Lots and Lots of armchair quarterbacks. Not only that, but ignorant armchair quarterbacks. And I use the word "ignorant" not to mean stupid, but in the traditional sense: uninformed. How many of you who are critiquing Mr. Oritz have seen him work? I mean really work, not on a DVD and not at a convention or lecture? Anyone? Yeah, that's what I thought... SEY Quote:
On 2009-01-28 17:57, ASW wrote: I'll bet it's both. And I'm sure Harry will appreciate the guy spelling his name wrong. SEY |
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lithyem Veteran user San Diego, CA 306 Posts
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No it's true I've never seen Darwin work - I only know his performing from the DVD series. Not to say that those DVDs are a bible of his style and nature but would you agree that they don't showcase many of the subtleties that his book sets forth? In regard to dealing with the audience specifically.
Not that any of this matters really - Strong Magic is a fantastic read and a great book. Who knows what was going on the day he recorded those DVD's, the vibe the audience gave back, or any number of things that can throw off a performance. In any case - despite the discrepancy with the Book/DVDs Darwin is a highly skilled practitioner of card magic and I think any of us here could learn something form him. |
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Pauldela Special user U.K 882 Posts
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I'm not saying that comment was pointed at me but...
I said, "from what I have seen" --- Then went onto saying that I have never seen him work for real, so who the **** am I to say? I would love to see Ortiz!!! |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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On 2009-01-28 18:17, lithyem wrote: Having some amount of experience with video, I can tell you that it is like performing in a black hole-- even if there's a live audience there. Not only that, when you do such a video the constraints are huge. The producer is paying for studio time, so he gets to decide what to shoot over and what not to shoot over. Every minute costs money-- so there's really no time to extemporize, as many of us would do in a live performance. As to the case of whether they showcase many of the subtleties that his book sets forth? That wasn't the purpose of the video. The purpose of the video was to demonstrate and teach effects, not presentational theory. Try this: get a contract for a magic DVD on which you're going to perform and explain some effects. Then in the middle of the shoot, go up to the producer and say "Listen, I'd really like some time to explain why I did such and such, because people may think it's contrary to some of my theories. See how that flies with a guy who pays by the hour for studio time. I will never make a negative comment on someone's performing style or personality based just from seeing them on video or a performance for magicians. And if you ever catch me doing so, point it out and I will immediately apologize. And lithyem-- sorry if the above sounds flippant, but none of this post was written in anger. SEY |
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lithyem Veteran user San Diego, CA 306 Posts
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Point taken - my DVD isn't coming out for a while ;-) so I obviously don't come from a place of experience there.
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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On 2009-01-28 18:49, lithyem wrote: BTW-- this is why the DVD's I make I do myself. I don't pay for studio time and I can shoot something as many times as I need to. I feel the result is better for me AND better for the people who purchase my products. SEY |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts
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I certainly don't speak for Darwin but he has had the great pleasure of knowing me for the last 18 years and I have seen him perform for lay audiences on many occasions and he absolutely kills.
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The Great Noobini wrote: "I first thought it was strange for Darwin Ortiz to have written a book on showmanship as I found the first performance I ever saw of his (Scams & Fantasies 1) quite bad really in terms of how he handles spectators. The way he tells everyone that the big girl is sweating so much that she has really put a HUGE crimp in his card. And later re-stresses the point while she is laughing uncomfortably. " I couldn't disagree more. I thought he did a great job with the spectators on that disc. They loved it. Also, to be fair, Darwin stressed to the girl in the video that her hand was sweaty. It had nothing to do with her size. Some people's palms sweat when they are nervous or just in general. For those of you who claim that he violates his own rules on the Scams and fantasies DVD performances (or his performances in general), would you mind expanding on that? What rules did he violate? Regardless, Darwin really doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him. He is quite successful amongst his peers as well as with paying audiences. I like Darwin's performing style a lot. It fits the character he is portraying and I find it very entertaining. In the words of a good friend of mine: "if Darwin hammed up his act the way that forum commenters seem to want, he wouldn't have half the credibility he has with a lay audience." Anyway, to each his own. There are plenty of performers who magicians seem to bow down to that I think are a joke, so it is all subjective, really. Good to know that despite the fact that some of you dislike Mr. Ortiz's performing style, you can still appreciate the man's work. PS - In regards to Richard Kaufman - he has published and illustrated some excellent books and has done a good job with Genii magazine.
ME
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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Ennis,
You're getting way too soft as the years go by. |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts
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On 2009-01-28 19:03, Open Traveller wrote: That's what she said !!!
ME
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Pauldela Special user U.K 882 Posts
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LOL!!!
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organicmagician Veteran user USA 345 Posts
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With all due respect - that's a complete cop out.
I'm sorry, but I've got all of Darwin's DVDs, so I've got a hearty idea of how he performs. If you are going to tell me all 15+ hours (or however many hours there are) should be seen as Darwin's inferior work, I say: Bah. I've seen at least 2 dozen close-up magicians live whose DVD's I own or later purchased. Often you get a great sense of who they think they are, because, producers or not, those DVDs show magicians as they wish to be seen. If Darwin thought he wasn't coming across as well as he wanted too, I doubt he would have kept recording tapes with the same company. Darwin might thrill crowds and be a magical hero. As far as I know, both are true. But I am more than comfortable saying his demonstrated style is not appealing to me. I agree that calling someone sweaty - even their hands - is a strange choice. I also found Darwin to be more than a bit stilted...even kind of boring, despite presenting great effects. If I was just to push mute and watch the magic, I'd love it - it would be perfect. |
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john scot Special user brighton, uk 585 Posts
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'Hold out your hand - the clean one!'
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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On 2009-01-28 19:22, organicmagician wrote: Say "bah" all you want. You're wrong. And ignorant about how such projects are done. Steven Youell |
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Posted: Jan 28, 2009 09:19 pm 
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