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kcg5
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The thing about ben forgetting being shot doesn't solve the time travel problem. When Jin found rouseau washed up on the beach pregnant, why wouldnt she remember Jin when she sees him when they crash the first time? Hurley is only scratching the surface
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



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gaddy
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On 2009-04-02 01:03, balducci wrote:
So we were all wrong in different respects, but I was right that Ben wasn't shot dead and apparently these events did happen in the past and are completely consistent with Ben's later life as we know it. He just doesn't remember being shot by Sayid, according to what Richard said.

I think it's a little surprising none of us considered that Ben might simply forget, or be induced to forget, what happened.


You are right about that... There was no doubt in my mind that Sayid could kill a 12 year old boy.

But I feel that the writers were not being true to Sayid's character by not having him kill Lil' Ben. The guy is a killer. He's killed with his bare hands, he's killed with objects, and he's killed with guns, Guns GUNS!

Jin was unconscious, and he was alone with Lil' Ben with no time pressure on him or anything of the sort... He had all the time in the world and every emotional reason to make sure the job was done right!

...but we're supposed to just take it as given that he ploinks one into his chest and runs away like a little sissy without even checking for a pulse.

Um... "No!"

This was a case of lazy writers needing a plot device more than needing the actions of their characters to be believable.

Not one of their finest moments.

On the other hand an interesting bit of information from this episode is the inference that something must be "done" to someone in order for them to become an "Other", and it happens at "The Temple".

Veeeery interesting.
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Ken Northridge
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On 2009-04-02 04:13, gaddy wrote:
On the other hand an interesting bit of information from this episode is the inference that something must be "done" to someone in order for them to become an "Other", and it happens at "The Temple".

Veeeery interesting.


Interesting thought. Wouldn't Julia have known about this being that she is a certified, "other?"
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Douglas Lippert
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Quote:
On 2009-04-02 04:42, Ken Northridge wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-04-02 04:13, gaddy wrote:
On the other hand an interesting bit of information from this episode is the inference that something must be "done" to someone in order for them to become an "Other", and it happens at "The Temple".

Veeeery interesting.


Interesting thought. Wouldn't Julia have known about this being that she is a certified, "other?"


Maybe, maybe not. Remember, Ben kept the "Temple" secret from even his own daughter who for all intents and purposes was an other.

Doug
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kcg5
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But julia said she knew Ben could only be saved by the others.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



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Donald Dunphy
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We are being given answers, and the occassional new question is being raised.

Someone earlier guessed that Locke became Jacob, because he ends up traveling into the 1970s, and later ends up becoming Jacob in 2007.

However, we now know that to be false. Jacob was mentioned in a conversation between Richard Alpert and Charles Widmore, when Ben (as a child in 1977) was recovering from his gunshot wound.

(And also, Locke mentioned Jacob to Alpert in a conversation back in the 1950s, when all of the time travel was happening.)

Also, it now seems as though Ben didn't successfully kill Penny or Desmond at the marina, before heading back to the island.

BTW, I think that Ilayna and the other people from the Arjia plane crash (who have the guns, and knocked Frank out), are more people sent by Widmore. They didn't kill Ben or take him hostage, so they must have another agenda.

- Donald
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gaddy
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I dunno Donald. That crazy talk just before they KO'd Frank leads me to believe they are something else entirely.

Remember when they were searching through a desk looking for information on DHARMA? Widmore wouldn't need to send people to do that.
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Ken Northridge
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Richard is a very mysterious character and one the writers have not explained too much about. He appears to be the same age in all time periods. That scene of Richard and Locke in the states, when Richard was disappointed with Locke. Was that significant? It is sure puzzling me.
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Donald Dunphy
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On 2009-04-10 03:25, gaddy wrote:
I dunno Donald. That crazy talk just before they KO'd Frank leads me to believe they are something else entirely.

Remember when they were searching through a desk looking for information on DHARMA? Widmore wouldn't need to send people to do that.


Are you sure they were looking for info on DHARMA? Or were they looking for info on "the others" (after all, this was one of their offices)? Or perhaps both?

"The others" seem to know all about everything DHARMA.

Another theory could be that they are related to the island's original inhabitants, who worshiped at the idol (statue) and also created the carvings / temple / wheel. That is why they used that question. They were asking the question of Frank to test who he was, and where his loyalties lie.

Then we would have a new group in the story. Right now, we have the Oceanic survivors, "the others", the DHARMA people, other people from the island (Desmond, Danielle, etc.), the freighter of people sent by Charles Widmore (both mercenaries and scientific), and the Ajira survivors.

I'm not so sure I buy the idea that the original inhabitants are related to "the others" (current generation). The original inhabitants seemed much more "spiritual" from what we know of them (I liken them to people like the Mayans). The original inhabitants had the statue, the underground and above ground temples that they carved, the wheel, etc.

- Donald

P.S. Yes, Ken. Richard Alpert is someone they have not revealed a lot about, other than his agelessness and his ability to be involved in many situations over the years. At times, he seems to have more authority than Charles Widmore, Ben Linus, or John Locke. And yet, he seems to let them lead. You'd almost think he was more of an observer, but at times he does get involved.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
gaddy
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Quote:
On 2009-04-10 12:31, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-04-10 03:25, gaddy wrote:
I dunno Donald. That crazy talk just before they KO'd Frank leads me to believe they are something else entirely.

Remember when they were searching through a desk looking for information on DHARMA? Widmore wouldn't need to send people to do that.


Another theory could be that they are related to the island's original inhabitants, who worshiped at the idol (statue) and also created the carvings / temple / wheel. That is why they used that question. They were asking the question of Frank to test who he was, and where his loyalties lie.


This is what I'm thinking as well. or perhaps they're part of a group of people that found just enough information about the island to be dangerous...

This show is getting to be more evocative of "The Prisoner" all the time!
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Donald Dunphy
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Wow! That was an awesome season finale.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Ken Northridge
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I'm still lost!
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kcg5
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I think miles was right with his theory. I loved the first scene on the beach, (anyone have any idea what the hell they were talking about?) the whole cave thing was very Heat of Darkness.

Anyone know where I can find what richard said in latin when asked about the statue?


I cant get over the mistakes with the guns, but its the greatest show ever.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
Donald Dunphy
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http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_%26_2 (copy and paste)

On this site, it says that Richard responded to the question of "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" with "Ille qui nos omnes servabit" - “He who will protect/save us all.”

That Lostpedia site is handy.

- Donald

P.S. My theory about the people on the Ajira flight (Ilana and her crew), and also my theory about Jacob, were blown out of the water.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Ken Northridge
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I was somehow thinking or hoping Jacob would be a more admirable character. I'm disappointed, I think. I always route for the good guys. Who are the good guys? That’s the whole question here.

Talk about a cliff hanger.....
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gaddy
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On 2009-05-14 12:55, Donald Dunphy wrote:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_%26_2 (copy and paste)

On this site, it says that Richard responded to the question of "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" with "Ille qui nos omnes servabit" - “He who will protect/save us all.”

That Lostpedia site is handy.

- Donald

P.S. My theory about the people on the Ajira flight (Ilana and her crew), and also my theory about Jacob, were blown out of the water.


Mine (that there's a duality between the island and Jacob and that Locke now physically represents the island much like the smoke monster) is still holding strong...

I find the whole Ilana/new characters sub-plot annoying this late in the show...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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