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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Price of Mentalism (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Yellowjacket
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Dr. Spektor

I have no axe to grind and I am not even sure I understand your post . . . but

Let me be clear, I don’t have a problem with a creator charging the price they want . . the market will tell the person what it will bear. I had two concepts to deliver in this thread:

One: why is mentalism considered a higher priced product than magic. Also why do some people charge higher prices than the norm . . .using Osterlind as a base line of quality material. Why do they feel their material is so much better? What makes their product superior (at least in price than say, Banachek) This is more of a psychological question. I am not attacking anyone with these ponderings, just curious.

Two: I tire of the café mentality of touting everyone who puts out an e-book as the most creative person in mentalism. You must buy their stuff. I know of one individual here who almost always ends fellow café member’s works as “must have in your collection” or “this is only for the real workers”.

It seems that very few people are willing to call a dud a dud. Or at the very least, simply not pump bad e-books. This is bad for people who are genuinely trying to learn and bad for the art in general.
edh
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Since Jerome has replyed here, I would like to see some of his performances. Is there a website with your bio or performance videos. I would like information like this before I purchase some e-book at a ridiculous price. Also why the NDA attached to the e-book? If someone were to purchase the book no one can review it according to the NDA. WHY? Is it that bad? Is it that good? If it is truly worthwile purchasing, the product would stand on its own.

The one review that was allowed was by a friend of his. Is this truly an unbiased review? How about getting both sides of the picture to make an informed decision. Isn't this about "Magicians helping Magicians". Oh wait...this is the mentalists section of the Café. I guess that motto doesn't apply here.

Just be aware of who comes out of the wood work to praise these type of products when they come out and you will see a pattern.
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OTTOEMEZZO
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I personally believe that yes a lot of e-books are a waste of money. Even the most popular ones. However, I cannot say that of Jerome's work. Is it high in price? Yes. Is it worth it? I haven't read anything of his that did not provide me with at least a new way of approaching my effects. The man is brilliant.
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tboehnlein
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Jerome you seem to be the one raising the loudest volume, could it be because your material is that that sells for 300-1000 bucks. Is it not possible to post here & be working on your act also, I know no one who works 24x7.
Nathan Pain
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Jerome's stuff is excellent...I am NOT saying that because we are friendly...I am saying that because it is true...I don't have ALL of his items because I need to get some money together...but if he ever puts out garbage at a high price, I will be sure to call him on it...

Jerome has a standard...this comes with high prices...high price, high value...

BMW's cost more than my Escort, but I don't yell towards Germany every day...

Nathan
...
Yellowjacket
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Good point Nathan,

And . . . I don't want this to be a bash Jerome thread. True his products are expensive. But people do seem willing to pay for them. The more apt question is why are his products worth more than Banachek' or Osterlind's to those that purchase them? I have not heard a single word of discontent about his products... but the post about a purchaser not being allowed to review them . . . was interesting.

This is a discussion about quality versus price and unfair pumping of products by fellow Café members. Let's not bash someone because they charge a lot. I have payed quite a hefty price for some exclusivity on certain effects. I would only be upset if they charged a great deal, unfairly pumped it with friends, and it was total crap.

And to be fair sometimes I don't like an effect and that does not mean it is crap for everyone. It takes some maturity to see the difference between, not right for me and not right for everyone.
Nathan Pain
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How about this...Why do Osterlind & Banachek charge so little for their products?

Nathan
...
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-02-07 16:18, tboehnlein wrote:
Jerome you seem to be the one raising the loudest volume, could it be because your material is that that sells for 300-1000 bucks. Is it not possible to post here & be working on your act also, I know no one who works 24x7.


Ha on you tboehn.
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Jim-Callahan
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Quote:
On 2009-02-07 17:28, Nathan Pain wrote:
How about this...Why do Osterlind & Banachek charge so little for their products?

Nathan


I would love to know why they do.

Also glad to have found my own way before things became as they are.

J im

H.o.A-X

(The Dead Boys told me their tales and pushed me to create myself).
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Yellowjacket
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Nathan,

Once again Touche....

Great point!
Banachek
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Because I am not a very good business person Smile In jest of course but a touch of truth in that.
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Nathan Pain
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But you are a good guy...

Nathan
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tboehnlein
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"Ha on you tboehn."

huh

Posted: Feb 8, 2009 12:02am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being a good business person has nothing to do with charging the highest fee, aloan shark charges the highest rates but I do not think anyone would call them a good business person.
lostpoet
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Smile

Have you dealt with many? What makes you think they wouldn’t be considered a good businessperson?

I’ve found their rates are not any higher than most banks. They don’t ask for bail out money either. In fact they will bail you out (even come pick you up).

I see you are in Ohio. I know a few up there who would be quite offended by your assumptions.


The borrower…
Smile
tboehnlein
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OK,let me simplify this for you just because someone can overcharge for something & get it does not make them a good business person. I would doubt they are so sensitive as to be offended by my statement though.
Tony Iacoviello
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I look at it as; we are not discussing needs or necessary items. We are discussing wants, luxury items. People can price them as they see fit.

As a consumer, if the strength of the want meets or exceeds the cost, then it is a consideration. Otherwise it’s off for a coffee and a donut, and the checkbook stays where it belongs.

Tony
baggins321
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In my opinion its supply and demand. Mentalism is the new craze in the world of magic. It was street magic with david blaine, now it is mentalism with derren brown. Just look at the two forums. Street magic has roughly 20,000 posts while mentalism has roughly 200,000 posts. Demand is higher for mentalism so the price is higher.
lostpoet
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Quote:
On 2009-02-08 15:13, tboehnlein wrote:
OK,let me simplify this for you just because someone can overcharge for something & get it does not make them a good business person. I would doubt they are so sensitive as to be offended by my statement though.




Are you that dumb? You need to “simplify” what you read first. You failed to recognize the humor twice.

“Simple” quote ‘just because someone can overcharge for something & get it does not make them a good businessperson.” Do you really think no one else sees this? This is so obvious it’s not worth typing. You have no discovery here. This is common sense and your comparison to loan sharks was so ridiculous I gave you a ridiculous reply.

“Simple” enough for you?
Waters
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I am not sure why all the fuss about this. There have always been products that one feels satisfied after purchasing, and then purchases that they didn't feel as glad about. There can be no fair and advance warning, because we all are different in our tastes, needs, goals and resources. The argument is circular.

I am not sure what the concern is...

1. Is it quality of material itself?
2. How well is that material communicated?
3. Production values (design, layout, etc.)?
4. The price?

It is interesting that there are fingers being pointed at ebook producers. There have been high-priced effects, books and other materials for as long as the craft has been. Some of those were perceived as worth the cost (to that particular person), others did not feel so. This has always been (and always will be). One does not compare the price of a car purchased in 1990 with a car purchased today. For goodness sakes, what did Annemann charge his subscribers to "The Jinx". Obviously the cost would be laughable in todays terms.

How much is an idea worth? How much a fully developed routine? What would either of these be worth to you?

Any (mental) venture should probably has these goals:

1. Artistic validation for one's ideas
2. To "further the art" (even if this means providing "worthy" options)
3. To make a profit

While I make no assumptions about people's perception of whether my material accomplishes these things, they are my goals nonetheless. I also use the proceeds from my own works to reinvest back into the works of others (probably 80-90% anyway). This just helps me develop more ideas, some of these will be shared.

In any venture people will sell items that are priced in accordance with "what the market will bear". This is an elusive notion, though. I charged $30 for "Ponderings"(which was 52 pages) and $37 for "Contemplations" an ebook twice as long (however, one person mentioned that cost to material ratio).

I have been performing (as an amateur/bi-vocationally: a detail I have never concealed) for about 12 years. The ideas I use are the culmination of study and performance for the same amount of time. Whether these ideas are worth it, are based upon the needs of, and use of, the material contained. This is impossible to measure.

All one can do is to to offer the best quality work they can, with fair production values in a format that consistent with their objectives, goals and faculty to execute. While I prefer a hardcopy book, I just did not have the time to constantly make runs to the post-office and deal with the complications involved with printing and delivering materials. However, since I am so little known, it would not have been feasible to find a publisher at that time. I just do my best and try to treat people with respect and fairness. All I can hope is feel their investment was worthy of admission. That is my hope.


Sean
tboehnlein
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" Simple” enough for you?' For me yes, but appearently not simple enough for you since you do not understand the analogy.
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