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Dr Spektor
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On 2009-02-07 16:29, Sam Jellyroll wrote:
........and they are pretty good mind readers too!

Are you talking about their expertise with head entertainment?

Posted: Feb 8, 2009 7:45pm


On 2009-02-08 00:02, tboehnlein wrote:
Being a good business person has nothing to do with charging the highest fee, aloan shark charges the highest rates but I do not think anyone would call them a good business person.


Depends how you define good. I think they likely make a lot of $ and don't have to declare it on income tax forms.
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Profile of lostpoet

It is so complicated. Please forgive me for not understanding.

I give up.

Davit Sicseek
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On the question of price... I think that generally things aren't over priced. I need to temper that statement with the view that some good stuff is over priced, and some stuff is simply not worth the money, either because it's garbage and cheap, uber-expensive and mediocre and my personal favorite - uber-expensive and a load of old guff.

For a fairly modest investment of around $100, it's possible to pick up a couple of good books and a couple of basic tools. Another few books, a bit of imagination, making use of free resources, a mediocum of intellect and imagination and one *could* be good enough to perform, doing paid gigs. Then you can choose to invest in the latest hyped products, or go out for a curry and some garlic nan bread.
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Profile of rockwall
On 2009-02-07 16:23, Nathan Pain wrote:
Jerome's stuff is excellent....

...but if he ever puts out garbage at a high price, I will be sure to call him on it...

Not if you signed an NDA prohibiting you from commenting on it! Smile

Personally, I think the only people complaining about the high prices are those that are sucked into the hype and 'want' the item but don't want to pay the high price. There is SO much material available and such reasonable prices that no performer really needs to pay the outrageous prices for some of the stuff that is available. It really isn't the holy grail that it purports to be.

If I go to Best Buy and see 2 DVD players. One is $50 and another is $1000 because of it 128 bit technology and 8 way multi-phase bit scanning super duper features, I buy the $50 dollar unit and I don't get mad about the $1000 dollar unit. I've learned that when I watch a dvd on the $50 unit it is undecernable from the $1000 unit. (I admit, I didn't always realize this.)

..... Unless it's a Blu-Ray player! Smile
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Profile of Athos
I'm a bit ambigous to take any opinion, though I second everything that Sean Waters said,

And consider this, having it edited by a professional, the time it took to produce the cover, I actually loose money publishing material! As well if you count how much time a book can take to write, edit, do proper credit research, that's a few pennies an hour. I dream of having something printed black on white (not the usual ****ty Stamples five cents a page comb bounding), though as far as the expenses go, I'd like to eat for a few months still...

Actually, having feedback from costumers is far greater than any financial gain one could have selling e-books.
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Profile of lejon
If you cant afford, don't buy it.

there is a good chance you can find the same info in an inepensive old book packed with routines.

Suffolk said in a thread: buy the classics before you buy anything released in the last 5 years. very wise. thanks BTW.

Mentalism, as anything else, is a market. and a good one. Loads of money. people can sell only cos others buy.....

the best waay to fight the increase in price, and I would say the only one, ..... don't buy.......... do not get taken in the "hype".

expereince on the Café is primordial. check who sells and who reviews, and who praises. always the same..... be weary and become a cautious purchaser.

if its OVERHYPED, then most probably you don't need it. Real gems are very rarely overhyped. cos people don't want it to be. if its overhyped then its not a gem "its a money maker".

the first books I baught in magic, were Christian Chelman.
packed with routines, excellent routines, full of magick, the book themselves are pieces of art, the guy has worked on the books, and you can see that. they are simply beautiful books. if anyone owes one, then he knows what I'm talking about.

that is value for money..... that is "gems".

what is to stop price increase in an unregulated market??....... buyers. Its that simple

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Profile of edh
Lejon nailed it.

Another thing...Do research on the author.
Where has he performed.
What is his bio.

BTW Nathan, you stated "Jeromes stuff is excellent...". Have you purchased his 1k tome? If you have aren't you violating his NDA by talking about it? Or is it ok to say only good things about the product?
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Profile of lejon
Reputation is quickly made on the Café.....

one way or another.....

just need a few friends...
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Profile of chichi711
So if I am understanding you correctly someone could come on here make a few friends release complete crap and everyone would buy it? Nobody would say one bad thing?
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Yeah, I have the 1000$ is a bunch of instructions on how to make the most amazing balloon animals...Jerome won't sue me for saying that because I made him sign an NDA about my right to purchase...

Now I am just being silly...I think Chi has captured my thoughts quite well...I will go with that instead...

And I STILL stand by my words that J's stuff is excellent!

I want a 300C but I don't go around getting my skirt all in a twist...

Actually, I have in the past had an issue with pricing...then I closed my mouth & opened my eyes.

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Profile of lejon
No Smile

you don't understnd me correctly.

this time I was talking about reputation.

but yes I have seen ( and unfortunatley made non refndable purchases of) total crap that had been praised heavily by " afficionados".

which is why I refer back to my post where I say: " experience on the Café is primordial". now I know ( for myself) whose reviews I trust and whose reviews I don't.

to each his own.

what ia slo say is that if idont like something I should be able to say so on a public forum and not be ostracised by the previously named " afficionados"

Posted: Feb 14, 2009 1:28pm

How do you compare:

MMM ( TA waters), real book, 65$
Any newbie has 1 idea and releases one effect ( which is merely a slight modification) in an ebook for 35$.

Penguin magic/ellusionist generation I guess.

Magic and mentalism are juicy markets.
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Well if I get more out of the one effect for $35 then it is a better deal. I like quality not quantity. If I pay $35 and get nothing than it was a bad purchase. If I spend $1 and get nothing it was a bad purchase. If I spend $10,000 and get something out of it then it is a good purchase. Not to hard to follow I don't think.
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Profile of lejon
No its not.

it makes sense.

The problem is you'll only knwo once you ve done the purchase, not before. Which is inherent to our market. so I refer back to my initial post: experience on the Café is primordial. know who you trust and who you don't...

Thas all I'm saying really....

and by definition newcomers to the Café cannot have that experience....

Did you get nothig out of MMM???

also I think that point of view will be dramatically different between someone who seeks education and someone who seeks to improve existing act
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I agree. I have certain people on the Café that I know and trust. I also know that the things they like I like. So generally if one of those people like it then I am fairly sure I will like it. Its not always the case, but enough that I am happy with it.

Reviews in general are a tuff thing here. I have purchased things and love it then I go read the reviews and everyone else hates it. And it goes the other way as well. I think when you start buying magic and mentalism you first have to understand that you will put your money into things that are of no value to you. I think after awhile you start re looking at things and often times I find value where other people look right past it.

Just my thoughts.
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Usefulness is in the mind of the beholder...
I've asked to be banned
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Yes it is
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Profile of Stefmagic
What about the huge number of very pricey limited book (a lot from Jerome Finley) that hits the "Let's make a magic deal!" section! What do you think about selling those limited edition ?
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What does he think about it?

J ack

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Right Jim?

I am not going to say a whole lot, but Stefmagic asked for thoughts on the subject.

I think there are too many convenient things to consider...

The limited edition material at a comfortable and friendly price, worth it to the person that puts the time in it to learn and adapt, are bound with a spiral binding ( to make reading convenient).

First, the limited edition of material. That means when they are sold out, people want them more. People want what they can not have.

Then since they are bound with a spiral I am not going to put it past the resellers that they did not make and have a copy, you can not tell me they didn't, of course, I am not expecting anyone to admit that.

Then they resell this OOP item at a slightly lower/higher/original price to either make a profit or have the item for free.

However, in this perfect world of honest people, maybe people are in a bind and are needing to get rid of some material.

In that case they should contact Jerome. Not speaking for him by any means, but he is a great person to work with. Very understanding.

I am not really sure why Jerome's name is being thrown up a lot here.

Frankly, if you do not have the material, there is no reason why you should be evaluating its worth...

Personally I do not blame him for getting out of the mentalism "community".

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Profile of jameme
I think the authors should charge whatever they want
it is their work, it is their baby.

But all the buyers, cant help to notice how Max Maven, Banachek and Osterlind are worlwide known performers and their ebooks are sold for a lot less than what Jerome Finley (known only in the trade) ask for an ebook.
Hell!.. you can buy all of the 3 wisemen main material (even some gimmicks) for what Jerome asks for a routine of him.

But like I said, He is the author, it is his baby, and he gets to charge whatever he wants for it, if you don't like it just pass on, I don't see the reason of !@#$%ing about it.

Also... we should remember by getting the price higher, you also get to be the only mentalist performing that routine in your area, or city or country....
¨you will never see a girl wearing the same dress on a party¨... Smile
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