The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » To those who think Derren Brown uses no no Covert Hypnosis or NLP, Watch This!!! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
bobser
View Profile
Inner circle
4176 Posts

Profile of bobser
Ooooooooohhhhhh!!!!!
lets be serious. hypnosis yes, NLP no way (but if I'm wrong... "show us").
And stay off the new agers. We know stuff.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Eddini_81976
View Profile
Inner circle
2183 Posts

Profile of Eddini_81976
I DO entirely I think see where you're coming from. I can't tell you how many people REALLY claim I was Psychic and had power after doing mentalism, metal bending cold reading so I do get the fun aspect. Most know how the 3 of Diamonds trick works (just keep a I.D. or B.W.D. ready), what method is that? I know the method, but have never seen it in any mentalism text. To me your physically putting suggestions into the subconcious mind which I thought, or could be NLP. Yes above was a over simplified definition. Here is how I explain it people. You got N for Neuro, the brain, L for linguistics, language, and P for programming. So I talk to your subconcious through certain techniques that your brain easily accepts, and I re-program your behaviors for the better. That's how I explain it to laymen.


AWESOME VIDEO John Grinder Explains NLP in the 8 minute clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYU7dkG6DtA


Derren brown DOES use a Hypnotic Induction in one routine. I think it's called Messiah. It's a two part video, where he plays a faith healer, such as Binny Hin, where you lay hands fall back and ger "Slain In The Holy Spirit". I've actually had this done FOR REAL though at a healing service. I was prayed over and all of a sudden I fell backwords, and I was in such a state of peace like being hugged by God, and felt really good for a week. I just wanted to keep laying there. After 15 minutes or so, I got up, felt on top of the world. Look back they weren't using hypnotic techniques except for seeing people fall before me and I know there are huge scams in that (Peter Papaloff)...etc. Anyway a guy was taped watching that and explaining things bit by bit. You had to turn it up to hear Derren, and Down when he talked, but all that was, was a fallback induction into their chairs, expectancy...etc. As far as stooges, I never heard Derren Brown Say he doesn't use them, it was a few people here who I trust and have read his books and are his fans that told me.

Okay I'm taking a risk here. Here is a video of a guy talking about "At The Dog Track". This is NOT a explanation, because he even says he posted it for fun guessing at the methos. It's 5 minutes long, same guy with the Instant Healing I mentioned above. I DO NOT want to be busted for exposure, HOWEVER if this comes too close or over the line, staff PLEASE remove it, you don't have to PM me as I'll understand. As I said I like this site. I'm only posting this as to show people WHY I think the way I do, and why to me at least it makes sense. This guy as I said could totally 100% be wrong. PLEASE I don't want to get into trouble, I just want to post this just once as I feel people don't understand where or why I have my beliefs. It's not all me in other words. As a aside I TOTALLY 100% disagree with his take on religion, Ed, (Eddini), C.H.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMaZzL_a90
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
bobser
View Profile
Inner circle
4176 Posts

Profile of bobser
I've got a real good feeling that you're not going to get thrown out of The Café Ed.
And the simple reason of course is that, although a certain type of kudos may have been felt by the guy lecturing in the clip, neither he nor you are guilty in any way shape or form of exposure.
By the way I'll bet DB loves it!

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20554 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On 2009-02-25 06:52, mindpunisher wrote:
Well we agree on one thing - messing with the heads of NLPers can be a lot of fun.

They are like the scientists that Banachek fooled. They so desparately want to believe. As do the new age spiritual community.


I will have to join you in agreement sirs.

They are clouded by WANTING to believe and blinded by actual belief, and then trying to find something that fits the belief.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ELDEMONIO
View Profile
Regular user
159 Posts

Profile of ELDEMONIO
WOW this topic is so funny, because here you are trying to figure out if Derren uses NLP in his performances. If Derren read this topic I think he would laugh at how people are really willing to beleive things. I think Derren's performance is is so good and so "real" that even we magicians want to believe in his NLP abilities. NLP has as a similarity to god in that both have NO scientific basis, but people in large numbers still belive in it.
Eddini_81976
View Profile
Inner circle
2183 Posts

Profile of Eddini_81976
Okay here is my final analysis on this.

Nlp is Real

Hypnosis is Real, and Can't be Debated, and he used Hypnotic Tecniques (Invisible man)

Does he use NLP. ONLY the minimal stuff like pattern breaking & Pattern Interupts, anchors (notice he touches people a lot...lol) NOTHING big.

Russian Roulette, That was 100% Mentalism as you can get as under that table was a special "Someone" to where he could see going on.

Lying trick. Just intense observation. Anyone could learn this in a day with proper training.

Picking Suggestable People

Great B.S.er

So he does strong Mentalism with a little hypnosis and VERY MINIMUM Nlp, and a great showman. This thread has opened my eyes and I thank you. I just (there's laymen in everyone) that part of me want to learn his secrets...lol, I won't lie and he doesn't use stooge work. I've listened to all the evidence and that my theory, which actuallu AGREES with most of you too so that's cool, Ed, (Eddini), C.H.
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
Alex1
View Profile
New user
56 Posts

Profile of Alex1
How do you know Derren doesn't use stooges?
dmkraig
View Profile
Inner circle
1949 Posts

Profile of dmkraig
Ed, why do you say something "can't be debated?" I would say that of course the reality of hypnosis can be debated. The reality of anything depends upon your definitions. For example, some people, including myself, would contend that hypnosis is the bypassing of the "critical faculty" that separates the conscious and unconscious minds. The problem is that nobody has ever seen or proved the existence of an unconscious mind. We can see the results of an unconscious mind, but not the unconscious mind itself. In fact, the very concept of an unconscious mind is merely a theoretical construct to explain the data--it doesn't prove it's real.

However, your analysis is accurate--coming from someone with no formal training in NLP and minimal training in hypnosis and mentalism. People with more training in those areas may differ.

I was fortunate enough to see Kuda Bux perform at the magic castle several times. To the best of my knowledge, he never revealed his secrets of doing X-Ray vision. Even experienced mentalists don't know exactly how he did the effect. Maybe some of them figured it out, maybe they didn't. I don't know. What I DO know is that he was a great entertainer and his performance encouraged many to follow in his footsteps.

FAR more important than how he does it is how well he performs it.

There's an old saying that goes, "if you know 1,000 ways to find a card and 1 way to reveal it, it looks like you know 1 trick. But if you only know 1 way to find a card and 1,000 ways to reveal it, it looks like you know 1,000 tricks."

To non-magicians, HOW HE DOES IT is the mystery. To magicians, THE WAY HE PERFORMS IT is the skill.

Do you get what I'm saying? If you want to spend weeks getting trained in NLP and months or years practicing so you can do effects like DB, go ahead! If you want to spend months getting training and more months or years in practice of hypnosis so you can do effects like DB, go ahead!

On the other hand, you can think like a mentalist. Ask yourself, "With the knowledge and skills I have RIGHT NOW, what can I do to achieve the effects of DB so they will work every time and make a great performance?" That's the key to success.

I recently purchased a booklet from Kenton K. which has ideas on doing a hypnosis-like show. One effect really struck me. Are you familiar with the concept of "negative hallucinations?" In this effect someone writes a number (or group of numbers) on a pad of paper. You show it to everyone and they all see the numbers. You then show it to the person you have "hypnotized," and he/she has a negative hallucination and only sees a blank sheet of paper.

I've performed it a couple of times and people have marveled at my ability to instantly hypnotize and create a perfect negative hallucination.

But it uses no hypnosis. No NLP. The misdirection/patter focuses on hypnosis and negative hallucinations. People THINK it uses hypnosis because they don't know enough about hypnosis and because I tell them I'm using hypnosis.

Is it possible--just possible--that your "analysis" is based not on what you do know, but on what you don't know?

Uri Geller said he was psychic and some people--even magicians--believed him.
DB implies that he uses hypnosis and NLP and some people--even magicians and people with training in hypnosis and NLP--believe him.

Is a parallel possible?
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20554 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I believe you meant "if you know 1000 ways to 'force' a card" not 'find' a card.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Eddini_81976
View Profile
Inner circle
2183 Posts

Profile of Eddini_81976
Hey that's cool. I'm more into Hypnosis than NLP, and yes have more to learn in both. As I said a few people here tells me he uses no stooges. Of of the Richard Osterlind mindset, I'm against stooge work 100%, hence why I refuse to watch Chris Angel, can't stand him. He get me going like the Masked Magician HOWEVER his cell escape in tribute to Houdini, and stage work are fine. Kenton Knepper is great. My 3 favorite Mentalist are Osterlind, Banachek, and Brown. I do think Derren uses it a lot less so my views have changed a bit. Thanks, Ed, (Eddini), C.H.
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
dmkraig
View Profile
Inner circle
1949 Posts

Profile of dmkraig
Quote:
On 2009-02-26 12:16, Dannydoyle wrote:
I believe you meant "if you know 1000 ways to 'force' a card" not 'find' a card.


Force or "find a chosen" card works for me.
Photo-Wizard
View Profile
Regular user
Manchester
141 Posts

Profile of Photo-Wizard
I personally know a Hypnosis Trainer whose DVD's have been bought by Objective Productions who make Derren Shows and also made Rajan and the evil Hypnotists and let me tell you this Derren uses far more real Hypnosis and NLP than you'd ever imagine.

Yes its true some things can be done the magial way and look like Hypnosis, but in honesty many of them are much easier,quicker and cost effective to film when pre-filming hypnosis is done and the person just has to react to post hypnotics.

Also beautiful thing about hypnosis is amnesia and being able to make the person forget than any pre-show work ever took place so they themselves end up beliving that what they see on TV is all that really happened as well.
bobser
View Profile
Inner circle
4176 Posts

Profile of bobser
LOL. Not being funny mate but I don't think Objective simply go and buy DVDs wthout then buying the performer. For what it's worth I also know a hypnotist who 'claims' that Objective bought his DVD's... but y'know what? I've got a funny feeling that whether or not they had a peep at our mate's DVDs or not, eventually they made a phone call and got a guy to come round.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6132 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
I think Derren uses a huge amount of pre hypnosis. Esp in his later shows. I also think as genius like as they are they do take from other sources. Even from here at least at the start.
Photo-Wizard
View Profile
Regular user
Manchester
141 Posts

Profile of Photo-Wizard
Hi Bobser

If we are talking about the same person and I think we may possibly be?

Then, well look at the clips of Rajan and The Evil Hypnotists on You-Tube for example and the Patter used (you have to lip read some of it due to the background music) and the physical actions and order things are done for Rajans Full Body Catalepsy Routine and also for the Blowtorch burning hairs off the volunteers body "sideshow" style stunts are IDENTICAL in most every manner to the way they are taught on a set of DVDS which I bought off Ebay from this person towards the end of 2000 way before that TV show was made.

I'm also aware of a person originally from Australia (again who I met at Blackpool although on this occasion I am talking about last year) who informed me they had contacted Objective Productions after seeing the Rajan Hypnotist shows and asked for advice on how to learn hypnosis and the people at Objective apparently gave them the contact details of our "friend"

Don't know exactly how true that is but certainly suprised me and made me think when I heard it.
The Mac
View Profile
Inner circle
1975 Posts

Profile of The Mac
Im more interested in how the volenteers are selected.

Is there some sort of audition held where another hypnotist put them in to a trance and gives them post hypnotic suggestions to forget what just happened and when Derren asks them to think of a number between 1 and 100000 they go for 7893 ?
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6132 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
They most likely advertise for volunteers. Most tv programmes do.

Which means they are highly responsive anyway. More than normal.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » To those who think Derren Brown uses no no Covert Hypnosis or NLP, Watch This!!! (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.23 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL