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fotballski Regular user Norway 183 Posts |
What is the most subtle, awesome, super-duper-mega-ultra-sonic Bottom Deal ever invented?
I'm going to take down the practice it takes, so it can be as difficult or easy to master as you want it to be, Regards, Daniel
"Someone creates a trick, many people perfect it, but its final success in front of an audience depends on the person who presents it"
René Lavand |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Just my two cents, but the best bottom deals are already out there in well-known sources. The key is choosing the one you like and/or suits your needs, and devoting all your practice to eliminating tells (tension, difference in takes, breaking rhythm, sound, finger flash, etc.).
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Doc Dixon Special user Pennsylvania, USA 655 Posts |
What he said.
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
Uh huh!
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Alan M Elite user California 433 Posts |
The answer is obviously in the most subtle, awesome, super-duper-mega-ultra-sonic book. It has all the answers... best double lift, best false shuffle, best trick in the universe, best way to skin a cat, you name it. I would tell you, but it's a subtle, awesome, super-duper-mega-ultra-sonic secret. Sorry.
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
The best is the one people don't see
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
You might start with the book "Gene Maze and the Art of Bottom Dealing." I belive their is also a companion video. Jerry Camaro had a video on bottom dealing, too. Jerry's method is much easier than Gene's, and I saw him perform it a number of times firsthand. Nobody had a clue he was bottom dealing. However, if you want to bottom deal under fire with other magicians burning your hands, Maze's is probably a better choice.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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feher Inner circle Michigan 1421 Posts |
I suggest Richard Turners "Best of The Bottoms" One of the best around IMHO.
Good Luck and have fun Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
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PapaG Special user 851 Posts |
Depends, amongst other things, on the size of your hands. Very large hands prohibit certain techniques because of the visible knuckle flash.
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
When I first tried bottom dealing, not all that long ago, I didn't have any sources for it so I just did the easiest thing. For someone who is used to holding the deck in Mechanic's Grip, the easiest thing is doing just that and in my case using the fingers to loosen the bottom card a little. (push method, I suppose)
Well... I have read every post here about bottom dealing since then, as well as all the sources I have been able to find. I have spent some time learning awkward grips and odd ideas, the modifies Erdnase grip described in The Annotated Erdnase being the easiest of those for me so far. But what did I find after all of that? I found that several very competent people favor the very technique I started with in the first place. Right down to the tiniest little detail. So now I'm back to practicing that, but with self confidence this time so the method suddenly looks a lot better. When I just did what came natural to me, I thought it was amateurish and inferior to whatever mysterious thing everyone else were probably doing. So that is what I think will be the best one for me for the time being. I will most likely change my mind again later on. But for now the best bottom deal in the universe is to simply do it the way I normally hold cards. The object being to use it for magic, not gambling, and also to deal seconds and regulars from as similar a grip as possible. Of course, it is probably going to take a lot of time to eliminate that push out pause I have. But I have time. I think you will have to go the rounds a little to find out for yourself what suits you best. I have to say that my week with the Erdnase deal has been very helpful even though I seem to be abandoning it now. It has a very distinct grip and balance of the deck which lets you hold everything firmly in place. The best part about the bottom deal probably, is that it falls into that category of sleights which are just simply very satisfying to do with your hands. Some sleights are nightmarish and boring in every way, but I think the bottom deal is one of the nicer ones. For me at least. Maybe I just haven't had the time to get sick of it yet, but so far I enjoy doing it. I'm sure everyone have their own friends and enemies.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
I enjoyed the Girls Gone Wild "Best of the Bottoms"!
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BenSalinas Special user Coinoscenti 746 Posts |
I tried to bottom deal a Flight attendant once.....once.
Simon Lovell floored me four times in a row with his bottom deal. I don't know if he has it in print or not.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Coin Flinger
www.SalinasMagic.com The Modern Coin Magic blog www.ModernCoinMagic.com |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
The BD is still the elusive sleight for me! I will prevail!
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
I'd be happy to show you if we ever meet.
Hey-o! Ben p.s. I'll be in NY during the first week of March, and Vegas/LA/Cali (for the GGG convention) in June. Always up for a jam!
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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Kjellstrom Inner circle Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe 5203 Posts |
Watch Allan Ackerman, he do superb bottom dealing on this DVD:
Advanced Card Control DVD Series Volume Two - False Deals Owe DVD: http://allanackerman.com/ |
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luvisi Special user 601 Posts |
It depends. What trick are you doing? How big are your hands? How do you deal normally? Are you sitting or standing? Are you dealing into a pile or into hands? Do you need to deal consecutive bottoms or not?
Some of my favorite sources (some of which are quite cheap) are:
I published some work on the bottom deal in Cogitations. My Cogitations articles can be downloaded for free from Practice Not Included. Best of luck, Andru
Andru Luvisi
http://www.practicenotincluded.com/ |
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fotballski Regular user Norway 183 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-22 11:11, luvisi wrote: Quite small Quote:
How do you deal normally? Like described in Card College 1 Quote:
Are you sitting or standing? A bottom deal where I can do both, I suppose, but if it isn't possible to do both I'll take sitting. Quote:
Both Quote:
Both Quote:
Gambling demonstrations like "God of gamblers" +++ I guess I need an all-round bottom deal for pretty small hands that can be used for a lot of applications but still can be done under fire. Both for gambling, for magic, for lay people and for magicians. After getting this information; Which of the bottom deals out there do you all recommend? Regards, Daniel
"Someone creates a trick, many people perfect it, but its final success in front of an audience depends on the person who presents it"
René Lavand |
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Kimura Special user 519 Posts |
I think the best way to learn the bottom deal is to look at a lot of sources and spend the time experimenting.
However if you can find it, Gene Maze's book is an excellent source. |
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fotballski Regular user Norway 183 Posts |
Quote:
Where can I find it? I can do second deals fairly well and I will learn bottoms no matter how much practice it takes. How difficoult are bottoms vs. strike seconds?
"Someone creates a trick, many people perfect it, but its final success in front of an audience depends on the person who presents it"
René Lavand |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-22 11:41, fotballski wrote: Well, now the question has changed. If you're looking for a Swiss Army Knife bottom deal, then you might end up with something that won't be as good as it can possibly be in a more specific context. If you keep the technique static, but change the context, then to make it deceptive you might have to introduce weird elements that don't make sense in the presentation. If you want to be seen as a "God of Gamblers" then you'll have to figure out exactly what you want them to see. For instance, some people announce that they're about to do a center deal, but they actually stack the deck instead -- the reason being they can give a prettier deal and the grip on the deck isn't so awkward. You also have to figure out if you're going to be making an event out of the deal. This could mean saying "I've got four aces on the bottom of the deck and I'm going to deal them to myself" (which some people do), or it could mean "Your name is Julianna? That's incredible! Watch this." and then spell out her name. In both these instances, you're using a bottom deal in a different manner than you might if you're doing something else. You also have to keep in mind that in magic we have access to covering actions that (a) make perfect sense in a theatrical context, and (b) would get you beat up at the gambling table. Finally, you're going to have to figure out your own personal taste when it comes to conviction. Wesley James made the point that there are positive illusions and negative illusions. Don't let the words "positive" and "negative" fool you, they're both good illusions to have, but you can't always have both at the same time. A positive illusion for the bottom deal would be "It looks like it's coming from the top." A negative illusion for the bottom deal would be "It doesn't look like it could come from anywhere else but the top." These things sound similar but they are not, and you can't always get both at once. One might lend itself better to a casual action that you want them to forget, whereas the other lends itself better to challenge conditions. Which one you'll need is going to depend upon the tone of the effect, and the overall impression you want the spectator to have. That's an artistic decision and one we can't make for you. To give you an idea of how complicated an issue this can be... I've got a bottom deal that I'm happy with. It's got magic applications and I can force the angle so that a larger audience sees nothing. It's got a good positive illusion in a relaxed environment, but it doesn't survive close scrutiny, and it wouldn't work at a gambling table unless I'm dealing to a confederate on my right and the others are on my left, in which case it would work well enough, assuming that everything else surrounding the move also functions (getting the necessary cards to the bottom, for instance). It functions OK in a rudimentary gambling demonstration, because in that environment the claim is non-magical anyways, so I can live with any tells I might give off, and it's not even the best part of the demo. There are bottom deals that would easily function better in a gambling demonstration, but I wouldn't want to use them for some of the magic applications I have in mind. Other people's mileage is going to vary, and that's part of the point.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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