The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I'm a real boy! » » Developing material (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
ColinDymond
View Profile
Special user
Gloucestershire, England
675 Posts

Profile of ColinDymond
My old man is definitely grumpy. He goes into rants about the youth, though as a sales man he loves their stupidity and gulability!
He thinks he sold them all their tatoos and peircings.
At the moment he gets to audition me which is fun!
Ony Carcamo
View Profile
Special user
Manila, PHILIPPINES
610 Posts

Profile of Ony Carcamo
Here's my take on the grumpy character...

Instead of an old man, I have been developing one of my figures as a grumpy person:

My Hartz boy named Nonoy--who's a ten year-old boy!

In the recent material I was testing for him, he was ranting about everything--politics, showbiz, social issues, etc. I guess it's interesting to hear those rants from a little boy!
Ony Carcamo
PHILIPPINES

www.onycarcamo.com
Tod Todson
View Profile
Inner circle
USA
1296 Posts

Profile of Tod Todson
This thread mentions the "killer comedy approach". Can someone elaborate on this?

Thanks,
Tod
Mystifier, Youth Speaker
<BR><BR>
Doug Higley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Here and There
7173 Posts

Profile of Doug Higley
Bob Baker: A performing Colon??? Now I've heard it all. And what if you took the idea of the California Rasins (which looked like Singing Turds) and combined them with the Colon? Permission needed from Will?

I always thought a Cheeky Spleen might be nice...but tell me...when you made the talking Colon did you have to get permission from Congress? They own that concept.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
Tod Todson
View Profile
Inner circle
USA
1296 Posts

Profile of Tod Todson
LOL Smile
Mystifier, Youth Speaker
<BR><BR>
Ony Carcamo
View Profile
Special user
Manila, PHILIPPINES
610 Posts

Profile of Ony Carcamo
Todd,

Killerstandup comedy's main approach uses NO JOKES in writing comedy material.
Here:

http://www.killerstandup.com/

It's the best system, at least for me.

Ony
Ony Carcamo
PHILIPPINES

www.onycarcamo.com
Tod Todson
View Profile
Inner circle
USA
1296 Posts

Profile of Tod Todson
Salamat, Ony.

-Tod
Mystifier, Youth Speaker
<BR><BR>
Servante
View Profile
Inner circle
1328 Posts

Profile of Servante
I looked at the stuff on the link, Ony. I'm gonna guess the secret is this:

Comics say funny things.
Comedians say things funny.

Watch Bergen or Winchell...or come up to the present and watch any of today's masters. Their figures tell the occasional joke...but, for the most part, the comedy grows from the characters. Jokes have spaces between. Character humor just keeps on rollin'.

The good stuff grows out of characters...saying things funny.
Being a comedian, not a comic.

Another good example: Senor Wences. Johnny and Pedro didn't tell jokes.
They didn't say funny things.
They said things funny.

The best stuff grows out of character...or (subhead) character in a situation.
But it's not about telling jokes.
Servante
View Profile
Inner circle
1328 Posts

Profile of Servante
Jimmy Nelson...another good example (Hard to define him. He was an early master for me...but he's still working! And still a gentleman. And still a master).
Ony Carcamo
View Profile
Special user
Manila, PHILIPPINES
610 Posts

Profile of Ony Carcamo
You hit right, Servante. And this system will help performers write their own materials without resorting to jokes. Well, using jokes is okay, as long as they fit the character we're using. This system also teaches how to use street jokes in your routines.

I also use jokes, but my real challenge for myself is to write more materials without using street jokes.
Ony Carcamo
PHILIPPINES

www.onycarcamo.com
Tod Todson
View Profile
Inner circle
USA
1296 Posts

Profile of Tod Todson
Can anyone provide an example of the two differences?

Tod
Mystifier, Youth Speaker
<BR><BR>
Ony Carcamo
View Profile
Special user
Manila, PHILIPPINES
610 Posts

Profile of Ony Carcamo
Street jokes are jokes that are usually public domain. We can read it in jokes books. Bob Hope's material fit into this. For example, the classic: "Two Jews went into the bar, etc. etc...."

Materials that are NOT based on jokes... look at youtube for ANY George Carlin or Bill Cosby videos. The audience laughed so hard on their act... but you'll realize they aren't delivering single joke! They are two masters of this genre.

Usually, materials not based on jokes don't read funny on paper. But on stage, they're a killer!
Ony Carcamo
PHILIPPINES

www.onycarcamo.com
Servante
View Profile
Inner circle
1328 Posts

Profile of Servante
Or consider almost any situation comedy on television. They're not telling jokes. The humor comes from their personalities and situations. They don't, as Ony points out, come onto the set and say, "Two Jews come into a bar..."

So...for your vent figure, you figure out his character. Is he stingy? Is he crabby? Is he a smartass?
Now, set up a situation. Maybe he has stage fright. Maybe you got his grade card. Maybe...well...you decide.

Then put it together.

I'm a playwright for a living. I write different kinds of plays...but for the comedies, I don't write jokes for the characters. I set up situations and strong characters.

Same deal.

Makes for better comedy, too.
Ony Carcamo
View Profile
Special user
Manila, PHILIPPINES
610 Posts

Profile of Ony Carcamo
Hey, Servante, I'm also write stage plays here--now I know another vent/plawright!

Of course, let's not forget Bergen, and his funny situations with Charlie and Mortimer. They usually don't tell jokes (sometimes they did though) but most of their routines, especially radio routines, were based on comedy situations.
Ony Carcamo
PHILIPPINES

www.onycarcamo.com
Servante
View Profile
Inner circle
1328 Posts

Profile of Servante
Gosh, Ony, there are so MANY vent/playwrights in the world!

(Kidding. Just kidding.)
Servante
View Profile
Inner circle
1328 Posts

Profile of Servante
To return to an earlier drift: I'd like to know a little bit about the history of Walter and Melvin the Superhero. Bob and Tom pointed out, above, that Walter is based on Mr. Horowitz (Nelson/Jackson) and work by Kristin L. (stands for...?).

There's apparently some bad blood about it all. I've heard what Mr. Nelson thinks (Great interview, Matt). What's Kristin L think?
And, for that matter...as I mentioned above, I've got a cranky old man I've started writing material for...am I in a creation violation over him? He doesn't look like Mr. Horowitz or Walter...though he is a bald-headed old man with a frown...and his arms are crossed.

But then...who built the first "cheeky boy," and aren't we all in debt to the CB? Jerry was one...as were Danny and Charlie and Velvel and...well, pretty much every main figure of a vent. Interestingly, Dunham doesn't really have a cheeky boy character...unless you count Peanut...who is a ...um...cheeky woozel.

I have a cheeky boy figure. Many of you do. Are we violating something?

I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck here...just trying to figure out the situation.
Mr. Pitts
View Profile
Inner circle
David Pitts
1054 Posts

Profile of Mr. Pitts
Servante,
Probably the first ventriloquist to focus on a strong central cheeky boy character in his act was Fred Russell, a British vent, and his partner 'Coster Joe', back in the early 20th century. There were other vents before him who used little boy characters, but usually as part of a large group of characters, and although there might have been comedy involved in the conversation between the vent and the many puppets, the main thing was the demonstration of the skill. The vent demonstrated his skill by moving easily from character to character, using different voices, voices offstage etc. Fred Russell changed the nature of the vent act to comedy and focused on the strong comedy cheeky boy character. My take on this is that we owe Mr. Russell a debt of gratitude, but as for infringing on a copyright or even stealing material, I think not. We're following in a tradition. If a jazz musician plays a popular standard on the clarinet, nobody accuses him of stealing from Benny Goodman. It's a little different with comedy, but I think with the cheeky boy it's understood by almost everyone that this is a standard comedy character. With an old man character, or even more so with say, a skeleton puppet, I think a vent needs to be even more careful about developing an original character and original material. There's a line that I think we are all intuitively aware of crossing when some small voice in our head (or on our knee) tells us... "this is too close, this is copying" If we listen to that voice we'll be able to avoid stealing the other guy's stuff. Bottom line, if YOU know you're stealing, stop yourself and change directions.
David Pitts
David Pitts
The Astonishing Mr. Pitts
Comedy Magician and Ventriloquist
http://www.mrpitts.com
Servante
View Profile
Inner circle
1328 Posts

Profile of Servante
Thanks, David...yeah, I read all about Coster Joe. Got quite a few books on our histories and traditions. Wanted to get some feedback...and yours was good.

Still struggling with the grumpy man thing. On the one hand I figure Bill Nelson deserves lots of credit as does Dunham for popularizing his version.
And on the other hand, of course, I think about the tradition of the grumpy old man going back to Pantalone in the Commedia Del Arte, etc...

I guess, for me, the trick with my old man figure is not to be influenced so much by what Dunham has done as to let the character speak to me so I can discover just exactly who he is.
Hope others can weigh in on this, because I've been thinking about it a lot.
Thanks again, David.
Servante
View Profile
Inner circle
1328 Posts

Profile of Servante
Incidentally...saw Dunham live the other night. 7500 in the audience. We were seated fifth row center. Guy's bloody amazing. Guitar Guy is pretty *** good, too.
I took my fiancee with me. Wasn't sure how she'd take a whole show of ventriloquism. She laughed hysterically all the way through and told me, "That's the best thing I've ever seen!"

Vent is hot again.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I'm a real boy! » » Developing material (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL