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NYCJoePitt Special user 558 Posts |
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Flameproof Underwear - Hyper Overdrive Power ENGAGE! |
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dmueller Loyal user Central Illinois 227 Posts |
At the risk of making matters a little worse in here I would ask one question. Was The first book publish in '56 or '62 because both years have been claimed. Not trying to be a jerk, just asking for some clarification.
Also Harry I know you probably do not care, but I must inform you. You temper tantrum's towards people who have differing opinions than you, has cost you a customer. I was seriously considering purchasing some of your material (directly from you) until I ran across some of the posts later on in the thread. The people who have had anything less than nice to say about your material, all OWN at least one thing you have published. That means you have made money off of them. I don't know about the rest of the world, but I chose not to spend my money with vendors who turn verbally abusive at the first sign of a slightly negative review. To me its an indication of the customer service I can expect when placing an order. |
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TAJ Regular user 197 Posts |
The title of this post is, "Lorayne DVD's any good?" why are people berating Harry? personal shots are off topic and add nothing to this post. Give your opinions based on experience and facts regarding his DVDs.
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Nat Special user 566 Posts |
Harry's body of work will be read and studied for many, many years to come...original, uncommon and often remarkable magic! Nate
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Bande Elite user 430 Posts |
Wow! I was pretty happy to just let this go, but have received so many PMs, I figure it might be easier to address them all at once.
1. While I am very grateful for all the support, I do not propose nor support a boycott on Harry's products. Personally I will not buy any more products from him as I do not want to reward what I perceive as poor behavior. However, I think each person should make up their own mind. 2. No, I do not think there is a need to respond to more of Harry's comments/attacks. The nice thing about this thread is it all there for people to read on their own. You can read Chris' experience (both good and bad), Scott's perceptions (both good and bad), my views and Harry's own words. Read it and make up your own mind. As in all things there is no simple good/bad line. Harry has behaved very poorly in some cases, but there are also statements of how nice he can be in others. I would say this is parallel to his DVDs --- some really great stuff (love the one hand coin vanish and his version of 3 card monte) and some stuff that didn't really work for me and/or was not taught well for me. Take it as a whole and decide whether the benefits outweigh the detriments. 3. Yes, I do think his attitude and behavior are relevant to the topic. His tone I found grating which makes the learning experience more difficult and less pleasant -- some teachers make learning a new effect both easy and entertaining (Peter Nardi, Charlie Justice, Steve Fearson, Bob Kohler etc.) -- this is a factor in my deciding who to give my money to. I fully accept that some people will not be bothered by Harry's style or find the material valuable enough that they ignore the tone -- in fact I originally said the same thing in my review. 4. No he did not send me a PM, nor did I expect one. I only offered to give him my contact information because he asked and implied I had something to hide. 5. Yes his responses on this forum have surprised and frankly saddened me. I was simply expressing an opinion where I actually concluded that the buyer should purchase the DVDs -- now I no longer support that view. I just cannot support this type of behavior -- I think it hurts the community. While I do hope he will read these things, and in a calm moment reflect on them, and think that perhaps there is some truth to people's perceptions I do not support attacking him or telling him to read mental health articles. Everyone gets angry and says things they may regret later on -- sometimes if they are left alone they come around on their own. And if not it is unfortunate but ultimately more about them than you. And with this, I hope the thread will die and we can move on to much more interesting and positive things. |
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Ogre1234 New user Winnipeg, Canada 92 Posts |
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On 2009-03-29 01:57, TAJ wrote: Yes, that's true. However Harry Lorayne himself is joining the thread with attacks to anyone who has less that glowing comments about his work and makes it personal. It forces one to defend his/herself. His harsh comments encourage this type of behavior. |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Well, with EDH, now we have The Three Stooges. I suggest you study that article yourself, Buddy, seems as if it "hits" closer to you than to me.
dmueller: My very first book was HOW TO DEVELOP A SUPER-POWER MEMORY which was published in 1956. My very first book on magic was CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC and that was published in 1962. So both those dates/years are correct. It's interesting - since this thread began I've received more orders for my books - mostly the two CLASSIC COLLECTION volumes and APOCALYPSE volumes than usual. So, too bad (for both of us) but I'll just have to live with the loss of you for a customer (although I have no record of you EVER purchasing ANYTHING from me over the years). But, as noted, my sales have gone up because of the rants in this thread. So, a) your loss, and b) thanks. I'll let the ego of others decide which "things" are more "interesting and positive." My ego isn't large enough to make those decisions. Those who have contacted me personally are, of course, correct - why do I bother responding to some of these people? I know it's wrong, but as I've said often enough, it's the nature of this beast - I hit back. "Back" is the key word - I DON'T START THESE THINGS; it's the egotistical people (yes, EGOTISTICAL) who think they KNOW, or have the RIGHT TO spout off about others) who start them. I'll let people like Scott Quinn and Mr. Arce speak for me - fact is, they say it better than I can.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Oh, and Ogre is another found of knowledge. My comments are "harsh." You know, I'd like to tell you something, Ogre, and also to all the others in this thread - and it's redundant, 'cause I've said it quite often. You know, I published APOCALYPSE for twenty years(!). Many, MANY, magic items came out during those twenty years and many were sent to me for reviews or plugs, or approval, or what-not. With perhaps two exceptions over the twenty years (because I was personally involved) my policy was - If I couldn't say something nice, something positive, about the book/item, I'D SAY NOTHING. I DID NOT, DO NOT, HAVE THE EGO IT TAKES TO, IN ANY WAY, HURT SOMEONE ELSE'S SALES. I might have stated my opinion of the item privately, BUT CERTAINLY NOT PUBLICLY so that it'd hurt someone's sales, AS DO THE (MOSTLY INCOGNITO) EGOISTS here. Sure; they'll say, "Hey, so and so asked..." Well, in MY OPINION that doesn't give you the right. That's my opinion folks, and I stuck to it for the TWENTY D@MN YEARS OF APOCALYPSE. Admittedly, I may have been, and may be, wrong, but that's MY take on it; I'll leave the put-downs (which, of course, I'm accused of here) to the egoists in this thread. Strange, isn't it? How easily the pots call the kettle black. (Pots that bang others, but think that getting banged back is just awful.) Oh well... More power the egoists.
Sorry, Ogre, didn't mean to use your post as the basis for this "rant," but think about your last remark - let's all think about it - MY HARSH COMMENTS ENCOURAGE...etc? Seems to me that other peoples' "harsh comments" encouraged MY behavior. Let me repeat - I NEVER START THESE SILLY THREADS.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
First sentence above - meant "fount" not "found"; I hate typos.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
Quote:
Well, with EDH, now we have The Three Stooges. I suggest you study that article yourself, Buddy, seems as if it "hits" closer to you than to me. hmmm...sounds like a symptom of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Magic is a vanishing art.
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts |
And all's well that ends well, though mud-slingers and bully wannabes ("Hey look! I'm picking on a guy because HE'S OLD and I'M YOUNG!") still don't realize that evil & cowardly behavior towards their fellow beings just brings more publicity and sales for their intended victim.
*jeep! --Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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DonEngland 1947 - 2015 Champaign, IL 258 Posts |
With HL what you see is what you get.
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ted french Inner circle Columbus Ohio 1946 Posts |
I met Don England once at a convention an he was cooler than a fan. Super nice awesome dude.I didn't know he was a Café member.
P3
practice practice perform. |
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Douglas Lippert Inner circle E Pluribus Unum 2343 Posts |
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary |
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Douglas Lippert Inner circle E Pluribus Unum 2343 Posts |
Haha, sorry man. Couldn't resist the joke.
Doug
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary |
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El Mystico Special user 573 Posts |
The Best ever DVDs get my recommendation.
The performmances are entertaining to watch; Harry's style is completely different to mine, but it is engaging. A lot of the material is great. sure, not everything is 'for me', but I wouldn't expect that. The DVDs would work for beginners; he teaches some basic techniques. But also they work for the advanced card guy, Harry goes into some fairly advanced techniques. I've never had a problem with the way Harry teaches. |
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mumford Special user 652 Posts |
Since before the begining, Harry is a dynamite performer and instructor, you can't go wrong with any of his products.
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boinko Elite user Illinois 427 Posts |
Harry's an icon, and over the years I've quietly worked through many card effects in the bound volumes of Apocalypse. I'm no pro magician, but I very much like Harry's iconoclastic approach and writing style. He's one of a kind, and I've probably learned more about magic and illusion and misdirection from Harry's books than from any other source.
Thanks, Harry! |
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ryanalewis New user 67 Posts |
I just wanted to point out that the "temper tantrums" (dmueller quote) have not put me off in the least. I'm going to buy Best Ever today/tomorrow. Sorry Harry, it'll be from my local brick and mortar, but that way I support both you and them.
I know many people who defend themselves, tooth and nail, and those you like to get a raise out of others. Both are in this thread, and I know this is old. I was, actually, attempting to find some decent reviews of the DVD's in this thread... but whatever. I found some others, and it's due time I added some of Harry's stuff to my DVD collection. |
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts |
What a funny thread. You can always rely on Harry for a good old verbal punch up
Seriously though, the man has forgotten more than most of us will ever know so he deserves some respect. He may spit out words like a Gatling gun but most of it's worth hearing. |
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