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Ray Pierce
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Hey Brad... sorry... love ya, but got to get to this one first, then on to you!

Quote:
On 2009-05-29 16:23, sangita wrote:
WOW! let me see, If a show doesn't please me, or others, there will be limited viewers. Which pretty much takes away any advertising sales, and the program will vanish. Now that would be a good trick! You are totally off base when you say they don't care about my opinion. Like I said before, majority rules, and if the majority doesn't like the program it will come to a crashing halt.


Ok, Sam... I really don't think this will either resonate or connect, but I've got to try!

When I said they don't care about you... I was talking about you as a magician and a very specific profile of magician at that. They do care about the average viewer which we both know you are not. So if in fact I was talking about you as an individual and not the greater mass of the public in general, then your comments are moot.

Quote:
I don't need you to try and school me on television productions. I could care less about producers, sponsers or reasons why the show exists in the first place. I just know that the close-up talent is garbage! That's right, here it comes again. Garbage!


Nor do I believe it is possible to school you in anything as you seem closed to any degree of understanding or options. Your mind is made up... they are wrong, you are right so anything else is just not a productive use of my time.

Quote:
Here's an idea, instead of cutting up the 'good acts', which should run longer, they should just take the garbage out. Like I do every night!


It's good to have chores. I do as well. Again, the success of the show will not ride on our opinion but on the ratings and retention. It doesn't mater what we think as magicians. Your opinions will count if you produce a show yourself which I would recommend as then you would have some real world experience to factor in.

Take care!
Ray
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
Ray Pierce
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Lol... Ok! back to the fun!

Quote:
On 2009-05-29 18:05, truthteller wrote:
Yes, I listen to every observation I am given. I then evaluate based on my terms. I cannot be a good judge of how I am perceived by others. So, regardless of whether that perspective comes from a rank beginner or an old hand, I listen.

Now - if they start offering ADVICE - that's a different subject.


I listen as well... Anyone can have a good idea or more typically an spark that will lead you to something great. But for advice or critiques or anything like that, the "weighting" comes into play.

Quote:
If I look at the show and see one thing, that's valid. You can't dismiss that (unless you are arrogant beyond belief (using the generic 'you' there)). So, it shouldn't matter whether or not Jeff, or me, or Bus thinks the close up people come off unrehearsed. If they look that way to someone - that's the way they look. The producers can either stick their fingers in their ears, cover their eyes, or make other choices. Blind, uncaring, or idiots.


I can never dismiss an opinion as it's not debatable. It's based on the perspective of the viewer. I DO try and understand the perspective of that viewer to test my own theories and get a better well rounded look at what is being perceived. Sometimes it will cause me to change my opinion, other times it will make me reinforce my original opinion.

Quote:
Now, as to your rationalization - which is what you are offering. Sure, fire and brimstone could have rained down the day of the shooting - but it doesn't matter. You know as well as I, that when you produce a show, you deal with it. You make the choices, and you live with them.

When you make smart choices, you get a pat on the back. When you make dumb choices, you have Masters of Illusion.


I was totally with you on the first part... I agree... but then the second part fell apart. I made a dumb choice the other day an I didn't get Masters of Illusion, just a bad batch of cookies... so I can't accept that theory. You don't ALWAYS get Masters of illusion. There are MANY things you could get with dumb choices. Masters of Illusion is only one of MILLIONS of things that could happen. Again, they were not the choices I would have made in many cases... but they made them an we'll see the results if it gets picked up.

Honestly, I see a pattern of people calling out television shows much like shooting fish in a barrel. Is it really hard or challenging to do? Isn't it obvious to most rational individuals that television as a whole panders to the lowest common denominator? Again, there are exceptions, but as I've said time after time... most television is mediocre. Is it garbage? Some of it is but I really don't think Masters of Illusion is. Does it have some segments most would agree were bad? of course! Does it have some good performers? Yes.

I know it's garbage to you and they must have been blind, stupid or apathetic to do it. I've been around enough BAD shows to know this one wasn't THAT bad (to me... I know). Maybe it was mediocre to the general populace, but as a magic community, we are so outraged at the some of the choices, that we perceive it to be worse than an average viewer would. Again, that's just my hypothesis. Because we care so much about magic and hold it in such high regard... maybe our opinions aren't shared by others that just view it as another television show.

Quote:
It doesn't matter to me what problems they faced or the solutions they found. When you put something out for broadcast, it will be judged. And the only thing we can - the only thing we SHOULD - judge it on is the final product.


Of course... as we've done and everyone else that viewed it.

Quote:
Now, I am well aware of how the TV biz works - maybe not to the degree of hands on experience as you - but I have been closer to a lot of projects than many know. For example, I can imagine a myriad of reasons why people involved in the project would not make negative comments publicly. In fact, I have personally read one performer's safe public statement and heard his private lambaste. Do I fault him for being circumspect? Nope. That's his choice. But I do not think you can assume that everyone feels exactly the way they put forth to the public.


Of course, I know that and if you're clever and read between the lines I'm sure you can extract my inner feelings on some of the choices.

Quote:
Finally, we get to specific choices. I have it on good authority that people were sent to Hollywood magic the afternoon before shooting by the producers and told to pick up material for that evening's shoot.


Shoot... If I would have been working that day I could have killed on commissions! lol.. ok, no one is on commission there, but I would have had a lot of fun!

Is there anyone who thinks this was smart?? Anyone??? ok, we all agree... see how easy that was? Now who made that call? I really don't know. You might, but I'm sure I wouldn't have done that, but they never asked me so my opinion doesn't count. Someone made a decision, I'm sure there was a reason and it was justified to them. Was it a good reason to us? Probably not.

Quote:
Assuming this is true (and I trust my source - who appeared on the show) do you have a rationalization for that? Where in TV land would this ever be considered a smart choice?


Comedy Central? You've got to admit some of it was laughable. The really funny thing is to think that I would somehow rationalize bad magic. Sorry... can't do it.

Quote:
And we also know that several acts filmed much longer segments. Why could those segments no be used? Why were the edits made as they were? Why the laugh track? Why not spend a little more and get a decent illusionist and not Arian Black or Princess Redhead? Why have effects repeated on the show?


I believe the show was pitched as a series of shorter segments, I'm not sure. Why were the edits made? you would have to ask the editors. Having sat in the room for some sessions on other shows and edited a lot myself, there are some amazingly arbitrary reasons for certain cuts!

Quote:
Ultimately you can rationalize all you want. But it boils down to choices. They made them. They must live with them. And to condemn or impugn others for having an opinion of them borders on the ridiculous.


Isn't "impugn" a funny word? ... look at it... I m p you g n... how weird is that? I've seen a lot of funny words but look at the way it's spelled! wow, sometimes you just have to marvel at the way people can extract a pronunciation out of some consonants. A silent "G"... how does that work? Anytime I think magic is complicated I just read something and it brings it all back into perspective... thank you for that!

There are those with their minds set in stone, it doesn't do any good to talk to them. The ones with open minds I simply want to get more information to help them make informed opinions on things. Look at both sides, start at a balanced view and then let the chips fall where they may. I just want people to be realistic about the show and it's intentions.

It's not high art... it's not a qualifier on who is a MASTER magician. It's not a standard on magic and illusion as we know it. It's a syndicated TV show... nothing more. Everyone's getting SO riled up about it, it's amazing! I love when magic is held to a higher standard but let's face it, that's not what this show is about. So many people on here think it is, so they're getting all fired up on all of these choices that were made. Most real pros that were on the show know better and have a very realistic view of the whole process. Would they do it again? some would, some wouldn't but it's not a big deal. We go on and work to improve the craft.

That's what matters to me.
Ray Pierce
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sangita
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Quote:
Nor do I believe it is possible to school you in anything as you seem closed to any degree of understanding or options. Your mind is made up... they are wrong, you are right so anything else is just not a productive use of my time.


Your continued voice on productions makes me believe you have a vested interest in this show. Whether it be directly or indirectly. Hell, you might even be socially attached to one of the performers for all I know. Or maybe you just like hearing yourself speak.

Zip it for one second!

I watched a show and formed an opinion, now your trying to tell me that my opinion of what I saw is wrong. Listen closely, one more time...

The majority of the close-up magic on this particular show is Garbage! Nothing more, Nothing less. Now take a moment to let that sink in.

I don't care about any particulars or variables that are involved with this production. I just know what I saw was GARBAGE!!!

There is no degree of understanding, No right or wrong. It is MY opinion!

I think we both agree what those acts were... but then again, I think your operative word was 'Subpar', How politically correct you must be... Let's face it, McBride or other well known magicians who are in the spotlight are going to also be politically correct with their statements. Get them behind closed doors and you will find out what they really think.

Let me go a step further, and again, listen closely.

The name of the show is 'Masters of Illusion' not 'Beginners of Illusion' I do expect to see the BEST as the word MASTER would lead me to believe. The same would be said if I went to a concert to see Headliners and all I got was garage bands.

Now moving forward... maybe your SUBPAR is rated higher than my GARBAGE. I don't know where YOUR scales average off, though I have to believe it is near the bottom. Maybe you just don't like my descriptive word GARBAGE! If that's the case, you've just wasted a whole lot of your time dancing.

-MASTERS
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-GARBAGE
truthteller
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Ray, your bad batch of cookies aside, the statement I made concerning mistakes was a literary device. Of course bad choices lead to other bad things. But MOI can ONLY be achieved through bad choices.

The notion that because other TV is bad, or worse, makes this program excusable is ridiculous. That's like saying, because other people commit crimes, it's ok to commit lesser crimes. Now, I know there are people who think that way and make unlawful choices - but should that stop the police from arresting them? Just because there are worse shows on TV, should that stop people from criticizing an awful show?

You seem to think that we should not care how are art is represented. I suggest you look at the history of TV and public reactions to it to see if that is a reasonable position. If we produced a show that represented an ethnic group is criminal, idiotic, or evil - do you think the people in that group would simply dismiss it by thinking, "Gee, I'm in that group so clearly this show isn't aimed at me. Nothing wrong here." Do you think a show that implied all teachers were pedophiles and child abusers would be met by the teachers union saying "Well, we are teachers and we know better, so it's ok. I mean, there are worse shows on TV."?

Why should any of us embrace a show that makes magicians look inept? Why should we embrace a show that - through icky production choices - simply casts us in a less than ideal light?

Just because we can say magic received national television exposure?

Guess what.

In the world - people die from exposure.

Someone should throw a parka on this puppy.

Brad
Ray Pierce
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Hey Sam...

I know you're coming into this a little late so if I must... I'll go back and recap things I've already written that didn't get assimilated.

Quote:
On 2009-05-30 12:36, sangita wrote:
Your continued voice on productions makes me believe you have a vested interest in this show. Whether it be directly or indirectly. Hell, you might even be socially attached to one of the performers for all I know. Or maybe you just like hearing yourself speak.


I have a vested interest in nothing, but then again, I said that about 5 pages ago. I've done several of the shows so I'm speaking as someone who has been through it on the inside and am not defending the show, just trying to educate people who haven't got much (if any) experience in production. I understand that the subtlety of much of what I say is lost, but I'm not going to water it down. In fact I hate having to repeat things over and over, but sometimes it takes a while to sink in. For others it will never resonate so I let it go as I probably should have days ago.

Quote:
Zip it for one second!


ok... I just have for over 100 seconds... I counted... so did it help you any? I actually completed 100 times the requested action, for no reason other than to show how useless the statement was. It is something said to try and show power or authority yet it yielded nothing. Adults use reason, not demands to "zip it".

Quote:
I watched a show and formed an opinion, now your trying to tell me that my opinion of what I saw is wrong.


Nope, you didn't understand... I'm saying your standards are atypical to the viewer the show is targeted for. Nothing more. You could have said that the close up was brilliant and I would have said the same thing. You are not the average... but I think you knew that. Your opinion is what it is... but it's hard to base the demographic demands of the show on your opinion as it is nowhere near the mean for their audience.

I think the more interesting psychological study is why people feel the overwhelming need to tell everyone how much they think the show is garbage.


Quote:
Listen closely, one more time...


Ok... wow... I just realized had you not told me to listen in such a forceful tone, I would have probably forgotten to read a thing you said, rendering anything else in my post relatively useless... in which case you've filled a very valuable purpose in life by advising everyone (not just me) that your words have worth, value and meaning and that without listening to what you have to say... those words could be lost for all eternity and mean that life might then have no meaning... the essence of the soul lost forever. So I'll listen ...

Quote:
The majority of the close-up magic on this particular show is Garbage!


I listened for that??? I was waiting for the pearls of wisdom to elucidate the great minds of this century. If I'm not mistaken, you're just repeating what you've already said in as many words...(if not the exact words) with little advancement or thought to further understanding of your background, level of experience or justification of the gradient scale with which you use to define your words.

Quote:
Now take a moment to let that sink in.


I know this might come as a shock to you but it really doesn't take that long to let your words sink in.

Quote:
I don't care about any particulars or variables that are involved with this production. I just know what I saw was GARBAGE!!!


...and this lack of understanding and caring is what I find so interesting. Now keep in mind that I'm not debating the quality of the magic or the performers, just the quality of the judging.

Quote:
There is no degree of understanding, No right or wrong. It is MY opinion!


I agree... there is virtually no degree of understanding at all... which is the first thing I try and gain to make an informed opinion. But again, we're different.

Quote:
Let me go a step further, and again, listen closely.


lol... again with the demands! You must believe there is a greater weight to your words than others. Maybe if you capitalized or bolded them to make more of a point you would feel better abut it... maybe not, just trying to help you out.

Quote:
The name of the show is 'Masters of Illusion' not 'Beginners of Illusion' I do expect to see the BEST as the word MASTER would lead me to believe. The same would be said if I went to a concert to see Headliners and all I got was garage bands.


lol... Again... I'll go over what is now terminally old territory and repeat what came from a much earlier post that either wasn't read (my first and most likely accurate answer) ... or was forgotten.

It's just a title designed to sell the show, not a true qualifier of talent. I would ask you to listen while I repeat that but I'm not sure I could say it with as much gust as you could... you have that way about you.

Was the "World's Greatest Magic" really the greatest? The absolute best magic in the entire world? Is the Miss Universe pageant really considering all galaxies? Isn't it a little egotistical for one species on one planet to assume we have a stronghold on what beauty is? ... or then again, maybe it's just a title used to sell a show.

Quote:
Now moving forward... maybe your SUBPAR is rated higher than my GARBAGE. I don't know where YOUR scales average off, though I have to believe it is near the bottom. Maybe you just don't like my descriptive word GARBAGE! If that's the case, you've just wasted a whole lot of your time dancing.


Well, I'm not making any effort to hide my past, the shows I've produced or directed or what my standards are. I just don't have enough information on you to know how to frame your standards. If I saw your show and thought, "Geez, this is the most innovative and mind numbingly amazing magic I've seen in the world", then it would be easy to understand how relative to that, the acts on the show would fairly be considered garbage in relation to your own experience and quality.

I can only tell you that from my perspective of booking many magicians and studying and seeing thousands of others over the years, that the guys on the show were WELL beyond the bottom of the barrel that I've seen. Maybe I've just seen more bad magic than you have... as a matter of fact I'm SURE that I have over the years.... and that increased exposure to more magic, both bad and good, gives me a different scale with which to judge the relative merits of the magic on the show. I can respect your opinion, but until I know more of your own abilities and skills... I can't rate the merits of your opinion.

That's about the fairest way to say it for me.
Ray Pierce
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Ray Pierce
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Hey!

lol... I snuck out to teach a class and you got in... sadly I have another 3 hours today!

Quote:
On 2009-05-30 16:23, truthteller wrote:
Ray, your bad batch of cookies aside, the statement I made concerning mistakes was a literary device. Of course bad choices lead to other bad things. But MOI can ONLY be achieved through bad choices.


lol... Ok, I admit I knew what you were saying... sometimes I succumb to saying things for my own amusement because this is all fun and I'm just goofy that way!

I agree that MANY of the choices are bad... maybe even most... well... that's such a gray area given the thousands of choices necessary to make this come to life I'm not sure where I would side but I DO understand.

Quote:
The notion that because other TV is bad, or worse, makes this program excusable is ridiculous. That's like saying, because other people commit crimes, it's ok to commit lesser crimes. Now, I know there are people who think that way and make unlawful choices - but should that stop the police from arresting them? Just because there are worse shows on TV, should that stop people from criticizing an awful show?


(WARNING - RANT AHEAD! - stay hydrarted)

I think it's just my sincere love for magic as a live medium that makes me think of television as a lesser ***ized form of viewing. It second rate at best to view magic on television.... to START with... and that's assuming it's an amazing product!

Does it excuse ANY program from being bad? Of course not. I honestly feel that the more viewers anything has, the more we have to water it down to connect with the intended viewer. This is going to take a second, but bear with me.

If I'm working with an individual, I can tailor a solution or effect to that specific person. If I'm working for a targeted group, I will make it a little less specific but I try and find shared commonalities for those people to make it unique and specific to the group. If it's a group of 2,000 people, you have to make it a little less specific still... thinning out the message to the shared commonalities that are common to that sample.

Now imagine 20,000,000 people. If you take the shared common facets of that sample. it is going to be a greatly reduced size of shared traits and qualities, so yes... you have to "thin out" the message to get the core to resonate with the most people in that sample. That in a nutshell is why television sucks. To resonate with the most people, the message has to be so generic as to water down any real content to make it palatable for the common masses. There is no money in appealing to the edges of the bell curve. The money is to appeal to the lowest common denominator as that is the greatest portion of the market.

Is it right?... From an art standpoint, no. My feeling is that television and art are not truly related. In fact they are largely mutually exclusive. It is a mass market medium yielding a watered down content base to be financially successful. There are some great shows on television but it is the exception to the rule.

I'm not happy about it either... but I'm realistic regarding the content. I think a lot of people on here are not necessarily realistic as to their expectations for a television show. Have there been good ones? Of course. Were they syndicated budgets or network budgets? Most of the better ones were network which means better budgets, better quality, better staffing... etc. That's the reality of how it works.


Quote:
You seem to think that we should not care how are art is represented.


Of course we should care... but we have to pick our battles. It drives me crazy too, but unless we're willing to put our money where our mouth is about increasing the quality of the output... it will be hard to change. Do we care enough to put up an additional $100,000 out of our pocket to get a better product? I think many people care but will not take action to really improve it. Will we go out and produce something better and try and sell it? Do we care that much? Or do we just care enough to say how bad it is? It's a VERY tough dilemma. I care and I do what I can to try and improve the output of magic... sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

Quote:
I suggest you look at the history of TV and public reactions to it to see if that is a reasonable position. If we produced a show that represented an ethnic group is criminal, idiotic, or evil - do you think the people in that group would simply dismiss it by thinking, "Gee, I'm in that group so clearly this show isn't aimed at me. Nothing wrong here." Do you think a show that implied all teachers were pedophiles and child abusers would be met by the teachers union saying "Well, we are teachers and we know better, so it's ok. I mean, there are worse shows on TV."?


I'll accept the argument, but you might meet some resistance in the equality of bad close up tricks and suggesting someone is a pedophile. Now I hate bad close up as well.. but I'm not sure I would put it in the same category. Again, my feelings on the level of some of the participants is known, but is it that bad to the lay public? I don't know. I haven't sampled enough lay audiences to know.

We do tend to be more sensitive to the things we love. If we perceive someone making an ill mannered comment towards our spouse, we will take a much greater offence than if the same thing were said about a random person we didn't know. It seems that is happening here.

Quote:
Why should any of us embrace a show that makes magicians look inept? Why should we embrace a show that - through icky production choices - simply casts us in a less than ideal light?


It's not the show that is casting us in a less than ideal light... it is the fact that they exposed us to bad magicians that are casting us in a less than ideal light. On a daily basis, the reason our art is looked down on is because of bad magic performed by bad magicians. We would prefer to hide it behind closed doors, but it's out there... around the globe. We're mad at the producers because they exposed it. Isn't that really the problem? They took a sample, (not the best one by many standards) but we are griping at them for taking a sample and putting it on the air. We're mad they brought out our weird uncle that we try to not talk about... and our crazy cousin that no one admits to knowing. Our magical family isn't that clean. We try and skew the sample by only letting people see the good ones, but the reality is that there are far more bad magicians than good ones.

Of course seeing a true sample of magicians will cast us in a bad light. Yet, we just blame the ones that expose it.

I know... it shouldn't have been called Masters of Illusion... I know we didn't like a lot of the performers...

So let's get off of our tails and give them something better and see if it sells.

Otherwise we're just talking for nothing.
Ray Pierce
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truthteller
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Don't you hate it when the internet eats a perfectly good post!

Here is what I think I typed:

First, Ray, good to see you are coming around to my way of thinking Smile

I would like to continue with a couple more perspectives. First, the real travesty was not that bad acts were put on TV (though I find that egregious). The real disappointment was with how really good acts were represented poorly. This was the result of choices made by the production team. In my mind, there is only one person to shoulder that blame, and that is Gay Blackstone. For that, she should be ashamed.

And I don't think there is really a case to be made that these acts came off well. Look at someone like McBride. Compare his segment on World's Greatest to the segment on MOI. Same act. Same talent. But one came off woefully less than the other. Will a layperson know? Maybe not. But doesn't it make you the least bit sad that a layperson walks away thinking "oh, magic guy with masks and cards" as opposed to "wow, that was freaking awesome."

They had the chance to leave people with that impression about our art. They didn't. Gay Blackstone should be ashamed.

Second, I agree that there are crappy acts out there. But, again, I think it is important that when we as magicians (and I loosely include Gay in this) have the opportunity to put forth the face of magic to the public, we do so with the intent to elevate that perception. MOI did not do that. (Of course, maybe that wasn't her goal. Maybe she did it for the money. Maybe she did it to make herself feel important. If either was the case, Gay Blackstone should be ashamed.)

Now, you contend that this opinion of ours results from our rarefied position of being "in the know." I disagree.

If we were talking about Blaine's first special when many magicians dismissed his magic as being nothing more than an invisible deck and the ambitious card - you would be right. We as magicians often forget (or simply do not realize) the value of solid albeit classic magic. The people who poo pooed Blaine for this did not "get it."

But this is different. This isn't a case of people going - "oh, they shouldn't have been on the show because they were doing the old linking rings". This is a case of people going "Oh they shouldn't be on the show because they CAN'T do the old linking rings at all."

Now, you are right, there are magicians out there this very minute butchering good magic - which is all the more reason why we should (if we care about our art, and are not in it for the self aggrandizement or the buck) strive to make sure we don't add to that trash heap.

MOI added to the trash heap. For this, Gay Blackstone should be ashamed.

I too have seen an awful lot of bad magic - and just when I think we have hit rock bottom, someone like Adam Wylie convinces me we are still plummeting headlong into the abyss.

Gay had the chance to do something else. She didn't HAVE to do stupid street magic with people not yet old enough to vote. She didn't HAVE to take great acts and butcher them in the editing room. She didn't HAVE to sell a special that she knew she couldn't pull off successfully with the money and resources allotted.

But she did.

And magic looks worse because of it.

For this, Gay Blackstone should be ashamed.

Brad Henderson
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Okay...I tried, I really tried. With exception of a few acts Master of Illusions is unwatchable. They will let *** near anyone on that show it seems. Hey, I suck, but I'm seeing people do routines that I can do better and if I can do it better than someone it isn't an example of good magic. The freakin' masked magician, who I don't even think is a magician, is better than 80% of the performers on that show! Celebradabra or whatever it is called was better! Is someone out there going to make a good magic TV special again or has it sunk to this?
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My grandson loves the show...Oh wait...He's 9 yrs old... Smile ...
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Einstein)...
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Poor Poor WDI--

Spin it anyway you want to... Still Garbage!!!!

Make an opinion and here you come, the Lone Ranger to the rescue. Gonna bring down the bad guys are you! Well, you keep making excuses and I'll keep telling you what the reality is! Garbage!! WOW, there's that word again.

Lets hear YOUR opinion of the close-up acts. Like I said before, I haven't read through the previous posts so give it to me one more time. I don't need a paragraph or two or three.

Remember, No Excuses! Just your opinion.

sam
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Quote:
On 2009-05-31 18:18, sangita wrote:
Lets hear YOUR opinion of the close-up acts. Like I said before, I haven't read through the previous posts so give it to me one more time. I don't need a paragraph or two or three.

Remember, No Excuses! Just your opinion.


They were awful for the most part.... If you read what I wrote you would understand, but you didn't so you can't.

(lol... 1 line... it's a record for me!)
Ray Pierce
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Glad to see we're on the same page. Thanks for saving me the time of reading through this thread.

sam
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Lol... we can't be on the same page... if you haven't been reading the pages.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
mormonyoyoman
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It's nice to know that one can go a week without reading this thread, then return to it and nothing's changed. ("It's GARBAGE and anyone who doesn't bow down and agree with me is an evil idiot!" "I hate it and anyone who appeared on it, produced it, watched it, or ever thought about it!")

Cushlomachree!

*jeep!
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sangita
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I believe it's page 11 were on...That is the same page!

You think the close-up acts were awful and I think they are Garbage...Pretty close to the same.

Hey Chet, I like the way you think!

sam
Ray Pierce
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Chet, I agree with you as well, however your sarcasm might have been lost on some. I believe you can teach calculus to a 2nd grader... it just takes 12 years.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
sangita
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LOL. Looks like my sarcasm was lost on you. Imagine that!

Too bad Oh Chet didn't chime in. Maybe he was smart enough to understand!!
truthteller
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Chet I think your rosy disposition may be keeping you from seeing that there is more than that going on in these discussion. Ray has done a great job of letting people know about some of the pieces in the puzzle of getting anything on TV, and some of the challenges that go along with that. Dan, Levent, and Farrell have shared some stories from the frontline. And I have been most interested in the exploration of the question "Is any magic on TV, good for magic in general?"

But most importantly, hopefully by encouraging people to voice their opinions, all magicians will think carefully when given the opportunity to appear on TV, and hopefully some will take steps to ensure they are represented in the best possible light.

That's what I see when I read this thread.

Maybe I'm just more optimistic than you?

NAW!!!!

Brad Henderson
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Earlier I commented negatively on this show without really watching too much of it (about one third of one episode. I just watched 9 episodes of it on you tube- I scrolled through almost all of the stage acts especially those involving boxy illusions as they are of almost no interest to me.

I enjoyed Johnny Ace Palmer.

I enjoyed Amazing Jonathan (IMO one of the few comedy magicians in the history of magic that is actually funny.)

The close up magic was for the most part horrible- but the young people who appeared on the show are not the blame for this- most just were not ready for this yet- but since they were given the chance why not jump at it?

There were two stand out close-up performers that I recognized- one was Nathan Gibson who did some really tight material- well executed.

The other was Farrel Dillion who is the only close-up performer who actually demonstrated an ability to properly communicate with the audience.
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...

William Butler Yeats
Ray Pierce
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Brad, Cinemagician...

lol... What an intelligent discussion this is! I think that's all I really wanted is a place where we can intelligently discuss opinions on the many facets of magic. We can take facts that come from educated views and have varying opinions on them. This is a perfect forum for that discourse.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
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