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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » "Sneeker Tweeker" Wolfs Magic needs your help! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Regan
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Chance, thanks for taking cost into consideration too!!!

Regan
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Mumblemore
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Yes, I second the cost consideration as important also (in addition to all the technical information, presentational considerations, and design issues). You've got a lot of trade-offs to consider, but we're all confident that by starting from a position of maximum information and input, you can make better choices. Thanks Chance for balancing all these factors.
Bernie Balloons
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My show is getting bigger every time a new Wolf product comes out I think I need a hand truck and a bigger car I cant complain I got the best looking show in NYC
Lou Hilario
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What could be the average shoe size?

I am thinking of a compartment that is 7" X 12" X 4" deep. Spandex material. Lid is around 11" X 16" x 2". The wider the lid, the better the concealment.

Another possibility is to have all the 3 hinges (sides and back) removable (pin hinges) except for the front part. In this way, the prop is collapsible and could fit in a briefcase.
Magic, Illusions, Juggling, Puppet & Parrot Show ^0^
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cardone
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Collapsible like Abbott's arrow head ... wow that would be nice !
Chance Wolf
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Hey folks,
Collapible sounds good at first however I am ruling it out right away for the following reasons:
1)Increases set-up time. Not good for a lot of folks out there. Most want to get their show started with minimal set up.
2)The wiring process would be compromised do to front panel wire leads to lights. Even with quick connects, they would suffer abuse and damage.
3)Prop will suffer more damage GURANTEED. Some folks are very careful when packing/set up and a LOT are not. I cannot afford the shop time to take care of their mistakes. Sorry but it is a reality a have to minimize.
4)Increases my repair time which would not be manufacturers errors....not good.

Lou,
I appreciate your input but I have to disagree with most of it.
Spandex is not an option. I covered this earlier. Spandex cannot withstand the abuse. I have a reputation for quality props that are built tough and there is a reason for that.
I cannot make the lid 16" wide. Take a tape measure out and have a look. That is HUGE if you think about it. Please leave the lid/prop dimensions to me as that has already been solved. I am trying to make the prop as portable as possible yet serve it's purpose.
Thanks again and keep it coming.
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
Amazing Magic Co
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Chance,

Outstanding!! No doubt this will be a hit as your creative and construction always set a standard for others to follow. Good luck.

Dan.
Chance Wolf
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Hey folks,
I want to add a few points to my opinion regarding making the prop break down/pin hinges.
This feature makes absolute sense when applied to larger Illusions ( Zig Zag, Blammo Box, etc) as these props need to compact as small as possible for truck loading etc and you typically have a crew to assist in breaking down/setting up.
This prop will come with a case, be fully set up inside the case and could easily sit in the the front seat of your car. It just makes far more sense in the overall picture.
Hope this helps you understand my point.
Thanks
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
Potty the Pirate
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One solution to achieve compact size, AND fast set-up would be to have box which hinges down flat, then pops up into position and locks in a second....could be done, I suspect it would be about design, not production difficulties.
I strongly agree with Wizzo the Wizard's point (Louis Taylor), about Steve Axtell's amazing internet research. The thread for the RCAC's is now a staggering 47 PAGES long! I have read it from the start, and Steve took on EVERY suggestion on the thread, as far as I can tell! The resulting product is outstanding, and one can't imagine how such research & development could have been achieved without this forum.
I'm delighted to see Chance is also taking this avenue, and would love for him to design a prop that makes EVERYONE happy. One thing's for sure...the kids who see Chance's machine burning up a shoe, will be the ones with the biggest smiles on their faces.....along with Chance, of course!
Potty Smile
Chance Wolf
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Hey Potty,
I will do my best to make everyone happy but for some reason I have never found that possible...close but never 100% Smile
The collapsible concept is simply out as it would add FAR too much extra work and cost.
Also for my final point is that the prop itself does not allow compatibility due to two main design points.
1)The load chamber is solid and takes up about 75% of the overall thickness. I cannot make the load space collapsible for reason too many to post. It is just not an option.
2)The base has footings which take up about 20% of the overall thickness.
Therefore you would only get about 10% compaction which is not worth the effort.

I hope you can understand that we will have to rule out this option.
Overall, this thread has been a GREAT HELP to the upcoming design and I welcome any further input.
Thanks again!
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
magicbob116
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While I understand the lure of "packs flat" effects, many of Chance's other items such as the ABC Recombobulator, Funhouse, Blow Yer Stack, etc. don't collapse. But they are all fantastic and well worth the extra space they take up (as I'm sure this one will be).
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Lou Hilario
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What size of case are you planning? How about using that case to reveal the shoe ala Phone Ale?

I was also thinking of a remote controlled alarm. It can go on and off whenever the kid turned on a knob or a "look don't see" principle. A 2 channel remote could also trigger the smoke. In this manner, the unit can be attached under independent of the woodwork except for the lights where the battery could be concealed in the front back panel.

How about a music motor to activate the controls? It could be placed where the pointing arrow lever is. Kids could make a countdown.

We are just brainstorming here, no need for a debate.
Magic, Illusions, Juggling, Puppet & Parrot Show ^0^
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Chance Wolf
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Lou,,
All excellent ideas however the cost would be a major factor. Once you add in remote control etc. you have bumped the cost up by $150-200
I welcome the additional ideas but I do have a price point I am trying to stay within.
I am going to use your idea of a main power cut off switch that is easily accesible after the collapsing of the sides. Good thinking. But remember, you will have to remember to torn it BACK ON for the next performance. I will add an "ON" indicator light so folks are sure it is up and running at show time.
Thanks
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
Clownboy
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I have been following this thread with great anticipation!
This will be one fine product to have once its all completed.
I wasn't going to say anything until I had something intelligent to add.
Although I am sure I have failed... Here it goes anyway.

With the restrictions I have read why not make the prop Flip over so that it looks completely different on the other side.(Or the box transforms into a new design) This would solve the problem of having to reload the retrieval table/box or whatever. You pull out the burnt shoe and the audience assumes that its his shoe burnt to a crisp and the rest is empty. But if you design the prop like a flip over box. This makes it unrecognizable from what they audience had seen and you could act as though your putting the prop in something or off the stage and simply flip it over to bring out the retrieval.

Just a thought of how I might design it with what has been suggested thus far.

Good Luck Chance!

Brad
As the Frogs say "Times Fun when you're having Flies" Smile
Potty the Pirate
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Brad, your idea leads me to another - a flip-over box with a dumpable load chamber. The box is flipped over and the burnt shoe falls out, the sides hang down. Then, the load is hanging, and a simple catch could release the load. The original shoe would therefore fall as the performer requires. This could be into a servante at the rear of a table, or into a box, or other receptacle. There would be a noise issue, but some suitable sponge padding in the receiving box would sort that....
Sorry, I know you don't want us to discuss technical details here Chance, but apart form anything else, this would be quite a different design to the Cellulator. I wonder if you'll consider such a big re-think? The big significant advantages with this method are that it would be very easy to retrive the load, and it could be easily acccomplished by a solo performer. On the negative, the effect would not work surrounded.
Regan
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Chance, if you do make a detachable load chamber then you may as well make the load chamber be the retrieval box! Dump it out in a receptacle box, then later go to the receptacle box and remove this "locked" box, and reveal the shoe whenever and however you want. That sure would take the heat off of the restore part of the routine. However, I know this would be very difficul, and the size factor would come into play. Also this would most likely raise the cost substantially.

With that being said, I do have another idea that be be of use. This would not add very much to the cost and the size of the load chamber you have in mind shouldn't have to be altered.

Here is my thoughts: It really wouldn't be a bad idea to have a drawstring bag, or something of that nature inside the load chamber from the start. It would be an easy matter to secretly place the shoe inside the bag as it's being loaded in the Sneeker Tweeker. Finding it in a drawstring bag...inside....uh...something else...at the end would make the production of the restored shoe a little more amazing, and that part could be taken care of from the get-go.

My thinking is that it would be much easier to load in a drawstring bag at the beginning when there is no heat, than at the end when the heat is on. Plus, the bag might just help conceal the shoe (with the help of matching color silks, etc.) if we do choose to load it into something else for the finale. The drawstring bag could even be made kind of like a "rabbit-bag", and the production of the restored shoe could be made magically right out of a bunch of silks!

Just a thought.

Regan
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Chance Wolf
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Hey guys,
Good ideas but I am a bit ahead of you regarding the detachable load chamber. I have a retieval concept that will be VERY cool..if it works.
Please do not post anymore methods etc until I post my concept. I would greatly appreciate it.
I do not want to do a complete redesign of the prop itself as I simply do not have the time as it would set this back 3 months and, in my opinion, the idea I am onto should solve a lot of problems.
I want to state that you guys are really thinking and coming up with great ideas. Even if I pass on them, they can easily be used for upcoming projects/new ideas for my company or others who may jump on them after reading this thread.
Thanks!
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
Chance Wolf
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Hey folks,
I must stress that the SNEEKER TWEEKER is basically commplete in design. As I have stated, I TRULY appreciate your creative input however this thread is losing focus on my original question. I will use a few ideas previously posted.
I will repost my original question again so new folks can stay on track.

Problem: Kid's shoes these days are HUGE! Even small kid's shoes due to the excessive rubber moldings, thick heels etc. The load chamber for the prop can only be so big or the overall size of the prop will be huge. I am trying to design this prop so it will actually have smaller overall dimensions than the original Wiz Kote, mostly in the height. I have had several Wiz Kote's in the shop and have noticed the load chamber is really not that big. My main change, in the load chamber, will be that it is a rounded chamber rather than squared. Basically, cut a cylinder tube in half and that is what it would look like. It will be a bit deeper also.
It seems that no matter what I do, there will be folks who complain about the shoe size limitation. ( selection of kid/shoe etc.)

What recommendations can you give to cover this situation in the instruction sheets?
Examples: Methods of loading into your existing finale reproduction, Selection methods of child and shoe, Backstage loading methods etc.

This is kind of hard to explain but I think most of you would get this if you have performed Wiz Kote. Let's get the conversation started and see what we can learn.
Thanks!
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
Regan
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Chance,

I think a drawstring-type bag in the load chamber would be great, and I think it is addressing...at least some of the question(s) you had. Like I said above, it would not change your design, and you could load the shoe into the bag as you put it in the Sneeker Tweeker. No one would be expecting anything at that time, and in fact nothing would be happening for a while afterwards, so there would be no heat. It should be simple to have the bag positioned in such a way as to have the top of the bag opened, and the shoe could be placed inside, the stings drawn, and that would be that.

Here's the advantage to having the shoe in a bag, vs just having the shoe in nothing: When the load is dumped out, it may be possible to cover it with silks, or a foulard, or something. One that matched the bag's color might help conceal the load. Even if the shoe-in-the-drawstring-bag is placed in another type of retrieval box, the drawstring bag would add to the mystery.

Of course you might be able to load the shoe in a bag as it is being placed into some kind of retrieval box, but it would take longer and at that time the heat will be stronger. Plus, it always looks more suspicious the longer you hang around the place where the final load ends up coming from. Having the shoe in the bag from the get-go would help in all these matters.

Also, if the bag had a special release, such as a rabbit bag, it would be possible to reveal the restored shoe from matching color silks or foulard(s)....without any other cover! That would seem amazing to the audience! I think the more amazing you can make the vanish/restoration at the end the better. I've always thought that the Wiz Kote and similar props make for wonderful routines, but at the same time I've always felt that the magic in the main prop alone is weak....at least from the audience's perspective. I mean, the magician borrows an item and places it in a box and burns it up. That's what the audience sees, and while it creates lots of comical moments, there really is not much magic there. That's why I think the routine really needs a strong magical ending.

I know my drawstring bag idea still does not address the vanish of the burned shoe, but it might even help in that regard, because it could be possible to have a "matching" drawstring bag, openly place the burned shoe in it, and then make a switch. Now I'm getting ahead of myself...or behind myself....or something! I tend to do that sometimes. Smile

Regan
Mister Mystery
akolodner
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Hi Chance,
My suggestion is to go to a childrens' shoe store with the prop and find the maximum size brands, shoe sizes and popular types of shoes that fit in the load chamber so you can suggest to the purchaser what to look for and what the size limitations of the prop are. I think if you address the issue with some specific common examples in the instructions then you are bound to receive fewer complaints. Can't wait for this one!
Arnie
Arnie Kolodner
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