I've truly never been able to enter the state of hypnosis.
That's my opener BUT I can imagine many people arguing the case that first of all we'd need to know what state we are discussing.
Now I'm happy to accept that there is a level of hypnosis that you, we, me, enter everyday. I mean yes, I still cry at 'Little House on The Prairie' (C'mon cut me some slack here, who doesn't?). And yes some 2 hour drives can seem like 15 mins if the proper vibes are on the radio.
But, although the above may be true, my critical factors are still in play. So, if we can assume, for this argument that: 'true hypnosis is when the critical factor leaves the building' then my question/philisophical argument would be that: There is such thing as self-hypnosis. I base that simply on the fact that someone else needs to jolt my critical factor (big Norseman/Viking protecting my subconcious from being infiltrated).
Is this a FACT?

bobser (only clever people need reply)

Bobser youve hypnotised yourself to believe you can't enter hypnosis. Its not entering hypnosis you need its "de-hypnotising".

Hmmmmm, maybe that's not as daft as it sounds.

I wonder why you've decided not to allow yourself to go into a formal hypnotic trance?

I've never entered deep hypnosis required to create hallucination,e tc

I find that a very interesting conclusion on your part.

I agree with the punisher...

There is little to no difference between the scenarios you describe and hypnosis.

Maybe you need to rethink and alter YOUR definition of hypnosis.

I think its useful, in the way I think Bobser is implying, between hypnnosis as a direction of attention (e.g. the every day examples described) and then direction of attention to the point that a suggestion is absorbed subconsciously, that is then acted on compulsively, to the point that the person can reflect on it later and think "yes, I felt I had to do it/really wanted to do it" etc, despite it being totally irrational at the time.

I have had a few everyday examples of times when I have subconsciously accepted my own suggestion and then gone into a kind of trance. Once I went to a gig for a band I didn't know too well. I got there and the main band was on, but I totally believed they were the support band. I kept thinking "wow, these guys are good, the main act is going to be mind-blowing". Then, when they finished, people started leaving. I thought it very strange. I started telling people that they were going to miss the main band. The next day a friend said she came to talk to me, but that I looked straight through her as though I was in a trance! I really was in a total state of confusion, my attention was focused on a single idea, I was on autopilot.

At training events I tend to go 'relaxed' rather than hypnotised, more so because the goons on training events are so ego-hungry I hate the idea of being their hypno monkey. I once had a woman who in front of the rest of the group had the balls to try a rapid induction on me (I had humoured her efforts outside in the 'practise bit'). I was put into a terrible situation where I had to play along, but my body became very hot with the conflict of feeling like and idiot but not wanting to embarrass her.

Sorry Bobser, I kind of rambled away there.

That's ok Willbox, it was an excellent ramble and I enjoyed both your stories.
MiketheMagicDude, sorry but I think you're wrong and this is where many hypnosists lose the plot. They have a collective single thought process and it's this which stops them from using their intellect.
First of all if I'm sat there crying as I watch the actors act out a make believe scene in Little House on The Prairie and you tell me I'm now a concert pianist and you want me to play the piano then it's not going to happen mate. There IS a difference.
And let's say I surrender to your argument dmcraig and I actually don't 'allow myself' to go be hypnotised by a hypnotist, then that's probably because, as a hypnotist, I'm aware of the process. But then again other hypnotists are aware of the process I hear you say and yet they can be hypnotised. Good point. One to which I don't completely know the answer. Perhaps they have a weak mind and I'm very very clever (not going to buy that one, no?).
BUT my main point was on self-hypnosis. And I ask: Can I hypnotise myself WITHOUT knocking out my critical factor for a selective moment, in order to get the suggestion accepted from my subconcious. I believe this to be perhaps the biggest question ever asked in hypnosis. Because if I can then The Holy Grail is touchable. But I think the answer is: NO.
So therefore, if the answer is no (I know this is standard first year philosophy- sorry) then there cannot be such a thing as self-hypnosis.....
.... unless of course (even more first year philosophy!), my premise is wrong, and I CAN knockout my critical factor momentarily in order to get the suggestion accepted by my subconcious, only then can self-hypnosis exist.
Phew!

bobser

I've tried to be hypnotised a number of times. Although I strongly believe that I have been in a "hypnotic trance" it was simply not deep enough or strong enough to cause me to act out any form of comedy routine.

RT

I'm very comfortable with what you just said Robert and I'm in full agreement with that. So, slipped into a mild hypnotic trance but not deep enough for the critical factor to be removed. But my main question is 'does the critical factor have to be removed in order for my subconcious to accept the programme without question?' And all I'm really saying is, until someone can perhaps re-educate me to the contrary(which I'm perfectly open to), I don't believe that's possible ie: The individual cannot remove their own critical factor, thus self-hypnosis to that state cannot be achieved.
I was actually hoping somebody might disagree and educate me as to how. Where's Lee Darrow when you need him?!

bobser

Bobser. You are accepting suggestions on a daily basis. Hypnosis is a process that is ongoing all the time. What you are reffering to is a specific situation pertaining to stage or therapy. But neither states are required to accept suggestion. Infact all of the classic phenomena happen naturally all the time.

halucinations, positive and negative! Amnesia day dreaming etc.

However when learning hypnosis I used myself as a gunie pig. I found I could easily induce eye catalepsy on myself. Then arm catalepsy followed by levitation.

I was even able to instal key re-induction word "sleep". Which worked. I was still aware but acted automatically. I stuck my foot to the floor etc. Woke myself from the neck up only. It all worked.

Also another fun thing was to give myself the suggestion that the next piece of music I listened to would be special. I would enjoy it more than anything else before. That the music would move through my body through every cell charging me with energy and good feelings. I would then open my eyes put on a piece of music then go back into trance.

It was like being on drugs only cheaper and safer. Had some incredible sensations.

Do it with your other half its a blast...

Now that's probably the best post you've ever made MP. That's to say if it's true. Not calling you a liar you undertand, it may be true for you. But are you telling me that this is the norm? That most hypnotists can do this to themselves? I've NEVER heard of that from any hypnotist... ever.
What if you can't do that at all? What if you're just mentally instable (I can hear a cheer going up in The Café!)forcing me to soak up your misinformation? Eh? Where do I go now?

Too true! However, there are also training junkies who are far more interested in taking training after training rather than using anything they've learned.

I would love to enter deep trance to see hallucinations .... don't think I can.. too bad... id love to see crazy things.. save me $ on e

Your probally too well educated on the matter, and your expectations are far too high for the kind of mindset your trying to enter. I would suggest working on the "pre-talk" (hate that saying) that you use on yourself. :>

What if you just listened to me instead of the "norm". I never claimed to be the norm. It sounds like to me you have too much emotional investment in accomplishing your self imposed task.

Bin it and come from a place of experimentation and curiosity. For that is the mindset that will take you further faster and way beyond the norm.

So you are saying that crying at something you know is not real is BENEATH or LESS THAN playing out being a pianist...and is LESS of a hypnotic "trance?"

If that is the case then I stick by my original statement. I really think you need to go back to your basic studies and definitions of hypnosis.

To say that you can not be hypnotized is impossible. It is a natural state ( that can be invoked "artificially"... and not just by "hypnotists")

THis isn't working too well, therefore I have to say that if you don't undestand what I'm saying, it's MY fault.
What I'm saying is basically two things. The first is that no-on can hypnotise themselves to the depth where they can dump and old programme and insert another. For in order for that to be achieved PROPERLY then the critical factor needs to be removed.
The second part of what I'm saying is that no one person can remove their OWN critical factor. That would have to be done by another person for them.
Now Mindpunisher is saying he has that ability.
I'm saying either he can, and I'm wrong (which is both amazing and wonderful, I actually love it when I'm wrong and the benefits are that I have better a knowledge of a subject than before... honest!) Or I'm right and he's wrong. And that would mean he only thinks he's been able to do that.
The bottom line of this I guess is: he's managed through his concentration and imagination to believe he had catalepsy and can enjoy a piece of music. but I don't think that that necessarily means that he could scrap and actual programme he's running and insert another.
I think my basic studies of hypnosis are pretty much intact. Quite indepth in fact. As for definitions of hypnosis every man and his dog thinks they understand that one, and yet they're all different. Go figure.
In closing if I was wrong then I think I would have heard of it by know. I'm talkiing about real evidence. FULL self-hypnosis is about as factual as NLP. That has to be my belief until someone shows me different. It's called learning. And I'd LOVE to be wrong on this one!

bobser

Well bobser,
I use "self hypnosis" on a daily basis however,
I have never done anything more than relax and thinnk positive thoughts
I kinda don't think I could see things or create a different programe or generate
ace feeling just listening to music
not that I don't believe it or think I am not capable
what I'm sayin is I would love to get up on stage find out through a guide if I can be hyhpnotized then go back and do it myself
my mind is open but (to contradict myself) somehow because I know whats coming I cant see it happening to me
how about we meet practise on each other see how far we can push each other (off stage) then come up with a way of doing it ourselves
regards
andy