We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » JB Pro Coin Line (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
Mark Mason offers a line of coins now. Morgans included.

https://vault2.secured-url.com/jbtv/usa/......procoins
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
mitchmarkl
View Profile
New user
77 Posts

Profile of mitchmarkl
I've heard they're pretty good.
Sammy J.
View Profile
Inner circle
Castle Rock, Colorado
1785 Posts

Profile of Sammy J.
I checked out a lot of these sets at the World Magic Seminar in Las Vegas. I was tempted by the CSB, but held off due to the fact that the copper coin was an English Penny. This requires the gaff English Penny to be shaved down considerably. The set was beautiful, but I couldn't get past the size of the Penny when showing the gaff coins. I wish they could have used a 20 centavos. I know they aren't made any more, but if they could have gotten their hands on some of them the set would have been great. The chinese coin in this set is beautiful!
I wish I would have checked out the Morgan expanded shell. I now want one, but need it to match my other Morgans. I don't want to cough up the money for the matched set. These coin sets are worth checking out, but the best way to do it is to meet up with Mark at a convention.
By the way, I bought a 3CM from Mark at the convention. He took it on trade for some of his new coins. He thought it was a Lassen Triple Threat when I bought it, but further research on my part determined that it was a Schoolcraft 3CM. It is made with soft Morgans, and is beautiful. The price was right, so I am very happy with it.
Sammy J. Teague
Gahrsim
View Profile
New user
Nantes, France
10 Posts

Profile of Gahrsim
I met Mark at Blackpool without even being aware it was him. I found him to be a very charming guy, but most important his coin line is really nice. I've been able to handle a lot of them and I picked a set of soft morgan with matching expanded shell. The shell is very nice in coverage for an expanded shell and is pretty undetectable in vertical magic, even for the exercised eye.
Lawrence O
View Profile
Inner circle
Greenwich (CT)
6799 Posts

Profile of Lawrence O
I confirm the good opinion on Mark's coins from my examining them one by one at the WMS.

John Lippert, in another thread, states that the coins are made by Van Dokkum in Holland. From a discussion I overheard, this may well be true in which case we should not only add Mark Mason but also Van Dokkum to our search list when we look for quality gaffed coins and after sale service.

Mark's extremely commercial and pleasant attitude is sure to win him loyal customers. Quite like Dean Dill, he never tires to demonstrate effects and be nice to potential customers and when there is an after-sale's problem, he is very open to help.

I wish him good luck and look forward to his taking over of Bob Swadling's line.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Mb217
View Profile
Inner circle
8693 Posts

Profile of Mb217
Nice site!. Smile I was wondering what people think about this as to the Flipper and or Gravity Flipper:

"J B Magic are the only company who have the rights and permission to manufacture flipper coins, from the creator Bob Swadling. Thousands of these have been manufactured world-wide without Bobs consent. Now is your chance to support the original creator BOB SWADLING."

How do people feel buying such items from others that seemingly might not have been given permission to make or sell these things. I know there are a lot of folks here that believe deeply in credit being given to its rightful owner and then suggest that people get the item from the creator. Then there are those that figure a way around this by denying or debating from whence it came in efforts to do business anyway.

I doubt if most people have gotten their flipper coins from JB Magic via creator Bob Swadling (and the guy makes nice coins). I guess we all draw lines on all this as per our own desires right or wrong. Just asking as I remember the whole debacle with the great magic inventor, Steve Dusheck and Theory 11 as to his Cop/Silv Transpo effect and the slick gimmick. People have varying oppinions and tolerances about who begat what and when and how. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
polygonsmagic
View Profile
Special user
511 Posts

Profile of polygonsmagic
Posted on Genii board on December 19, 2005 by the late Werner Seitz (RIP)


"The following is an attempt to throw some light on the 'real' origin of the flippercoin.

It is not the intention, to start a 'new' controversy, similar to the still ongoing Lassen/Schoolcraft controversy, but to give some background, seen from the side of one of the 2 people claiming, having 'invented' the Flippercoin.

Eddy Taytelbaum from the NL, probably not known well to most of the present day magicians (look him up via goggle) did in a mail -on my request- yesterday, put on paper, some more extensive information.

Others might get and publish Swadlings view on this issue !

As a sideremark, Eddys health unfortunately currently isn't too good, so he asked me to extract the important parts re that matter out of his mail, the rest, containing his comments on other subjects and private matters.

Now, here is what he has to say:

The crude form of the trick is mine and you were one of the first to buy one. I am glad you did so at least there is one person who knows.

(Inserted by me, Werner,: This goes back to the VERY early 1960s, before 1962, as I, at that date, made an 8 mm movie capture of me, using that Flipper.
I'll put it on the net today and will make the site, where to se it, public here under this topic)

I gave or sold one to Postma who was a dear friend and when I met him after a while, he showed me the improvement and I was flabbergasted and hated myself for not thinking of it. Maybe I had, but I was not in a position to make a shell because I had no Lathe. I can't tell you the exact date.

Later, at a dutch convention, Postma met Swadling (no date here ), but Swadling should know.
Postma showed it to him and he too was flabbergasted.

I believe, Postma had three or four and sold them to him. Postma never made much of anything, he was just an amateur craftsman too.

At a later convention, they met again and Swadling confided to him, that he made a fortune with Postma's trick. I don't think that Postma objected that he was selling the trick.

Then Swadling made an addition or improvement, if you want, by adding a magnet and making the cut almost invisble. I consider these good additions and good thinking of Swadling. He is a clever mechanic.

Not too long ago, (Postma was still alive) I got a phone call from Tonny van Rhee telling, that Swadling had approached him and was asking if Tonny knew, who invented the flipper ???? coin.
Tonny, being a long time friend, told him, that is was mine.

At that time I told Tonny, that the improvement with the shell was Phil Postma's idea , being curious, I asked Tonny, what this was all about, and he told me, that since Swadling was selling the trick, he would like to enclose a small booklet, telling about the history of the trick and would like to credit everyone involved.

I applauded this guesture.

After a while, I saw an article and in the first instance I thought, this to be the sheet giving credit to whom deserved it, but nothing of this.

Then I acted by writing a letter. Don't know to whom.
Later, I got a letter from you and I consider our renewed friendschip, the best thing in connection with the flipper coin.
This date I remember, because it was near my birthday october 17th (2004).
By the way I just turned 80.

If Swadling knew it was his invention, why did he bother to ask Tonny about the origin???

I never took or asked for more credit then I deserve, and of all people, you are the best one to vote for this.

The coin through the table has never been performed in this way, before I used this method.

Inserted by me, Werner:
What Eddy refers to here, is a CTTT version where you display 3 coins and one of them penetrates the table, that was the basic routine, and this is what will be on the capture I'll put up on the net, though using my own handling for the *get ready*.

You have to understand, that the original version of the Flipper was displayed the 'other way around', meaning the coin has solely a single 'hinge' approx. at less then one third of the coins diameter, and the smal portion of the coin was on top when that coin was displayed.

Therefor this portion always had to be covered by an overlapping other coin, which so gave the appearance of 3 coins, which also was the start up of the routine, displaying 3 single coins, one of them being the Flipper and then stealing one away, bringing the Flipper into position to show still 3 coins.

The old man RINKHUYZEN ( known a 'Rink' to most magicians), a good friend of mine, was also flabbergasted, when I showed it to him, and he insisted, that I published it, so
I granted him permission to do so in the Gen.
No date known to me.

Rinkhuyzen published many more things that have been pirated also, like my four card oil and water, and my three card monte Routine, that inspired these on the market today, but who cares, not me.

Remark by me, Werner: Eddy refers here to the routine that is published under Eddys name and with his permission in Lewis Gansons *The Art of Close up Magic*, vol.1, and which builts the basis for Michael Skinners 3 card monte.
I though recall, Micahel Skinner gave credit to Eddy Taytelbaum, when Michael published his routine, I have the booklet on the shelf, but I trust my memory here, without looking it up, credit was given, but others have pirated Eddys version.

When Anverdi saw it, he came on the market with a version of three or four black disks that has been the forerunner of three fly.
Look up the Anverdi book.

What very few people know, is that this principle comes from a trick that Davenport has sold many decades ago and of which where made and sold a few also (speaking of piracy ).

For those who care to look it up , it is called THE POLES OF THE PUNDIT, as far as I recall.

All I was interested, was to give Phil Postma credit before he died.

Hope this answers the quest.
********************************************
End of the info from Eddy Taytelbaum.

Now it's up to others to get Swadling to give his site of his version..."
Mb217
View Profile
Inner circle
8693 Posts

Profile of Mb217
Thanks poly for this tremendous bit of information. I remember Werner very well here and what a great and honest man he was...Full of information about so much magic gone by. Not to mention a marvelous magician in his own right. I saw all of his films when he first transfered them and posted them on YouTube years back. We used to PM an email each other on things...Great guy and absolutely wonderful human being. He could do it all and was just a pleasure to watch and listen to, just a complete gentleman. We were lucky to have him here and he is dearly missed and still greatly respected.

I might've read this before here on the Café somewhere but it's good that you re-posted it and brought it out of the shadows for people to know, maybe even pick up the trail. There's a lot of secrets there in the shadows about who did what and when and how. We may never know the absolute truth on these things but anything from Mr. Werner G. Seitz is to be taken seriously.

I see Bob Swadling does enter into the picture with some noteworthy contributions to the flipper coin but clearly there are others that were on this before him. I have never heard of Eddy Taytelbaum or Mr. Postma but it seems that they are the greater foundations of the creation and then first improvements on the flipper. SchoolCraft and Lassen seemingly are New Jacks in all of this that happened to have had better technology to come up with these newer versions of something rather old. Clearly Bob Swadling was also in the vincinity and on the trail much earlier on in direct contact with Postma...And it seems that even Werner had it before both of them as an effect. Like Eddy Taytelbaum, I too am happy Werner purchased one right from the beginning from Eddy. It is because of him that this truth has been revealed so many, many years later and continues to live even now. Talk about being a true "Keeper of the Flame" where truth prevails despite the darkness all around and constant roar of individuals and crowds.

Anyway, I'd love to hear Swadling's take on it in further distilling the matter to its purity. If all true, then JB Magic should do the same sort of recognizing as they request others to do in reference to Swadling. Interesting to see that all of this stuff has seemingly always been going on, from one generation to another in magic. It's even mentioned something about 3-Fly, a whole other can of worms from the same sort of dirt and shadows. Wonder if Jonathan Townsend or Chris Kenner know of Anverdi or Davenport or Poles of the Pundit. I have never heard them mentioned here by them. Interesting. *Also, kudos to Michael Skinner in giving credit to Eddy Taytelbaum in regards to his eventual 3 Card Monte effect, and a great one it is and a great example of recognizing the those that came before you and help to make what you come up with possible.

Thanks again for posting this poly...I consider it a magnificent public service. And to have Werner G. Seitz a part of it, in the telling of the story is just magic in itself. Yes, RIP my friend.
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Zaprig1
View Profile
Elite user
470 Posts

Profile of Zaprig1
Thanks for posting this bit of history Poly!

My magic teacher from years ago whom I remain in contact with is forever debating this topic with customers and students. Werner's post will probably hang in his shop after I show him!
mitchmarkl
View Profile
New user
77 Posts

Profile of mitchmarkl
Poly, Thanks for posting this. It's good to know that we have to take everything we hear with a grain of salt. It seems that even though Bob Swadling is recognised by many as the original inventor of the flipper, that he may have only improved on what was already made by Mr. Taytelbaum and Mr. Postma.
Does anyone have an idea where I can see this 8mm movie of Werner performing with the flipper?
Mb217
View Profile
Inner circle
8693 Posts

Profile of Mb217
Think this might be it. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9TITOoHwTM

and this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmV3Q8cpCkA

I still love hearing Werner's voice.
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Griff
View Profile
Loyal user
Florida
284 Posts

Profile of Griff
Hey thanks for posting that MB, really enjoyed it!
Griff
mitchmarkl
View Profile
New user
77 Posts

Profile of mitchmarkl
MB, Thank you for posting that, I enjoyed it also.
kcquinn50
View Profile
Loyal user
230 Posts

Profile of kcquinn50
There is a "Soft Walking Liberty flipper and shell coin set" right now on eBay that the seller claims is from the JB Magic website.
Kelvin
Lawrence O
View Profile
Inner circle
Greenwich (CT)
6799 Posts

Profile of Lawrence O
Thks Marion
There are some interesting feints to learn there on top of the pleasure of watching the routines.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Douglas Lippert
View Profile
Inner circle
E Pluribus Unum
2339 Posts

Profile of Douglas Lippert
Quote:
On 2009-04-03 09:39, Lawrence O wrote:
John Lippert, in another thread, states that the coins are made by Van Dokkum in Holland. From a discussion I overheard, this may well be true in which case we should not only add Mark Mason but also Van Dokkum to our search list when we look for quality gaffed coins and after sale service.


I think you were referring to my post. It's Doug. Smile

I have a set of CFWM in half dollar and they're nice quality. They're not as good as Lassen, about the same as Schoolcraft but, better quality than Johnson.

Are a lot of CFWM in Morgan dollars unmatched and really circulated like the set below? Someone posted on the forums that Mark is having a hard time finding Morgans. I can tell by the quality of this set.

Image

Image


Doug Lippert
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary
http://www.facebook.com/Doug.Lippert
Ocha
View Profile
Loyal user
225 Posts

Profile of Ocha
Thanks Polly, and I think More to the point Thanks Eddy Taytelbaum.
That was an awesome post, thank you for bringing it here.

Gerald
I was Me but now He is gone.......
Lawrence O
View Profile
Inner circle
Greenwich (CT)
6799 Posts

Profile of Lawrence O
Yes Doug I was: so please accept my apologies for the mistake in your first name.

You didn't express in what they would be "not as good as Lassen, about the same as Schoolcraft but, better quality than Johnson"

Since this constitutes a mild form of advertising for Lassen can you do more than an apparently innocent statement. When it comes to Flipper, I found the design of the one from Jamie Schoolcraft to be actually superior to the Lassen one I bought on e-bay,
However Jamie's Flipper is comparable in quality to the one I purchased from Xavier Dumont.

Xavier is often doing the following: he shows his [ over a coin and after magicians have played with it for a long while and complimented him on the quality of his ] which are really outstanding (full edge), he simply asks " and what do you think about the Flipper (which was the coin handed over with the ]).

I wish to express my gratitude to Eddie Taytelbaum (who had some brilliant cardwork selected by Dai Vernon for his own books on cards) as well as to Phil Postma and Bob Swadling. Let's keep their name on the wall of fame in history especially at a time when some craftsmen claim to have some form of moral rights on a combination of ] and expanded ] combined for specific routines... but produce Flippers without any credit.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Douglas Lippert
View Profile
Inner circle
E Pluribus Unum
2339 Posts

Profile of Douglas Lippert
Quote:
On 2009-04-05 13:17, Lawrence O wrote:
You didn't express in what they would be "not as good as Lassen, about the same as Schoolcraft but, better quality than Johnson"

Since this constitutes a mild form of advertising for Lassen can you do more than an apparently innocent statement. When it comes to Flipper, I found the design of the one from Jamie Schoolcraft to be actually superior to the Lassen one I bought on e-bay,


I'm not advertising for anybody. I just prefer Lassen coin gaffs.

I have many different coin gaffs but I may not have one from every coin gaffer. But, I do have an expanded shell from MANY people.

I own an expanded shell from Todd Lassen, Jamie Schoolcraft, Johnson, Keuppers, Tango, Sasco, the Netherlands fellow, etc.

So yes, I can compare quality between the coin gaffers and Todd Lassen has the highest quality shell in my opinion. The coins look beautiful, and his craftsmanship is a step above(oftentimes MANY steps) the rest of the pack.

In regards to flipers, Todd Lassen has an improved flipper that works on gravity like the Schoolcraft flipper. You might have an older version of Lassen's coin gaff.

Best,

Doug L.
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary
http://www.facebook.com/Doug.Lippert
Zaprig1
View Profile
Elite user
470 Posts

Profile of Zaprig1
Has anyone seen or own the Liberty gravity flipper from the JB pro-line yet? Is this the same internal band system as the Schoolcraft? The term "gravity" can be a bit ambiguous with certain gaffers from my experience. Some do a treatment to their bands (which I know how to do) to make an old groove-style into a "gravity" flipper, and call it as such. I much prefer to have the edge on the insert, even though I've never been called out on my grooved flippers in years past.

So, for those of you who have seen these, is the insert of the JB flipper re-edged? Their site didn't expound on these points very well.

Finally, I'm also curious about their shell's coverage.

Thanks for any info!

CPH
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » JB Pro Coin Line (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.29 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL