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MacIrish
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CPH:

email bob at his site and he can answer all of your questions.
jayder
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I met mark at blackpool and bought his csb set as well as a few card effects.I see where Sammy J. is coming from with the english penny as I felt the same way at first but once you get comfortable using it then you'll have a great set.I was well happy with it.
jayder
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I met mark at blackpool and bought his csb set as well as a few card effects.I see where Sammy J. is coming from with the english penny as I felt the same way at first but once you get comfortable using it then you'll have a great set.I was well happy with it.
smartboysports
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Quote:
Lawrence, I am curious about the Lasson Flipper you bought on E-bay. Did you buy this from Lasson on E-bay? Or did you buy it from someone else? Also, did it have the Lasson Hallmark on it? The reason I ask, is that there are some unscrupulous sellers on E-bay who are advertising Lasson products that are not made by Lasson. I know of one instance in particular where I asked the dealer about the Hallmark and he told be that if I didn't feel comfortable buying it that I shouldn't purchase it. The next time I went on E-bay the item wasn't there anymore, and the dealer was advertising Tango Pro Flippers. I believe the only way to know that the product is by Lasson, is to buy it from him directly.


Ebay shouldn't be a "buyer beware" market. It's misrepresentation and should be dealt with. I'm always searching Lassen, Schoolcraft, and other coin guys on Ebay.
I consistantly see a seller advertise coins as Lassen that aren't. They sell a 3CM as a TT -and there's a big difference. I use both, and I'm not debating preference, as I use each for different apps. They've also knocked off Kohler's U3F by getting the gaff from another source... not to give anything away, but the gaff is different than Bob or Todd did. It's not my issue, as I know better, but it's not fair to the unknowing -thinking they're buying top quality, but getting a mass produced sh***, etc. Even Todd has pointed it out on his blog.
Just my two cents Smile
mitchmarkl
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Quote:
On 2009-04-06 18:26, smartboysports wrote:
Good point Mitchmark;
Quote:
Lawrence, I am curious about the Lasson Flipper you bought on E-bay. Did you buy this from Lasson on E-bay? Or did you buy it from someone else? Also, did it have the Lasson Hallmark on it? The reason I ask, is that there are some unscrupulous sellers on E-bay who are advertising Lasson products that are not made by Lasson. I know of one instance in particular where I asked the dealer about the Hallmark and he told be that if I didn't feel comfortable buying it that I shouldn't purchase it. The next time I went on E-bay the item wasn't there anymore, and the dealer was advertising Tango Pro Flippers. I believe the only way to know that the product is by Lasson, is to buy it from him directly.


Ebay shouldn't be a "buyer beware" market. It's misrepresentation and should be dealt with. I'm always searching Lassen, Schoolcraft, and other coin guys on Ebay.
I consistantly see a seller advertise coins as Lassen that aren't. They sell a 3CM as a TT -and there's a big difference. I use both, and I'm not debating preference, as I use each for different apps. They've also knocked off Kohler's U3F by getting the gaff from another source... not to give anything away, but the gaff is different than Bob or Todd did. It's not my issue, as I know better, but it's not fair to the unknowing -thinking they're buying top quality, but getting a mass produced sh***, etc. Even Todd has pointed it out on his blog.
Just my two cents Smile


smartboysports, There is one E-bay dealer in particular who doesn't seam to have a problem supplying the public with copies of Troy Hooser's TT notes, illegal copies of other performer's dvds and manuscripts, and intentional knock offs of other peoples gaffs. If you'd like to know his E-bay name, PM me, and I'll give it to you. I don't know if I should name him on the Café, as I don't have the physical proof.
Tom G
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Agreed, buying a used coin set off eBay, unless you know the seller or product is risky. Or second hand for that matter. I've been lucky enough to get my coins
direct from TL. And with sellers like Mitchmarkl mentions, scamming buyers, just
not worth it.
smartboysports
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Quote:
smartboysports, There is one E-bay dealer in particular who doesn't seam to have a problem supplying the public with copies of Troy Hooser's TT notes, illegal copies of other performer's dvds and manuscripts, and intentional knock offs of other peoples gaffs. If you'd like to know his E-bay name, PM me, and I'll give it to you. I don't know if I should name him on the Café, as I don't have the physical proof.



I know exactly who you're talking about... and it's probably best to not mention names. You'll have them threatening you with a lawsuit or something, lol.
You are right on your assumption - even without physical proof. Obviously, what they're doing is wrong, but it makes it worse when they're a "magician".

I have bought my share of gaffs directly from Todd or Jamie, but have actually done better buying on Ebay. While the price is typically higher, I get them faster Smile
Most of those purchases came from very reputable dealers like Mendoza, or collectors that you often see on here. I just wish more of you would sell... Smile
Zaprig1
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MacIrish,

4th email.......Still not really getting the info I need:

Anyone bought or seen yet?

Hello Mark,

Thanks for the reponse! Confused about the band though. Is it in a visible groove on the outside of the insert as in early traditional flips?

Can you please post me a pic of it open from top, bottom open and then closed gaff side? (Liberty). it would be much appreciated!

Prior to breaking my hand last week I got CFWM. Want to shop while I cant perform. typing is not fun though.

CPH


> To: christian
> Subject: from mark mason j b magic
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 04:42:20 -0400
> From: jbmmarkmason@aol.com
>
> hi Christian
> thanks for the email. the answer to your question
> is these flippers are not the internal band. the band however cannot be
> seen and there is an edge on the piece that comes out of the shell.

Can anyone else help?

Thanks,

CPH
mumford
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Polygonsmagic thank you, most interesting and informative.
Lawrence O
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When it comes to [, Todd Lassen has been selling expanded [ which edge does not fully cover the coin's one.
He did some sets with [ fully covering the coin's edge but these were special orders and not expanded [: both can be easily seen on his site and blog.

The fact that very prolific genius inventors like David Neighbors support Todd in developing their new gaffs with him, does give him a commercial advantage in some situations and this is fair.

However he didn't invent neither the [ nor the expanded [ nor their combination: the fact that Troy Hooser created some great routines with Triple Threat doesn't grant Todd any special manufacturing rights. He not only didn't invent the Flipper nor the gravity Flipper but didn't ask permission or give credit to the creators. Thus he cannot expect a more favorable treatment than the one he gives to other creators who didn't come his way.

Now if some members here keep on bashing other manufacturers, making false statements about Todd Lassen's work, and even though I'm reluctant to do negative reports and keep trying to be as fair and positive as possible, I will have to publish the long list of Lassen's dissatisfied customer either by the quality of the coins they received directly from him or who reported on the net how he mistreated them before or after the sale. Such complaints were scattered on the net and in forums but, Todd Lassen having been around for a longer time than other craftsmen, it is much longer than he imagines and definitely longer than what blind followers would expect.

This list, like all the ones I published on other matters, is fairly impressive. By personal taste, I prefer making positive lists but "sect followers" making false statements presented as testimony about the quality of Todd's work, either to brag or for any other reason, may end up forcing me to publish it.

Todd is doing a very good job most of the time but he has a despicable contempt for his potential customers. On some products he is doing a better job than most like C/S, C/S/B, magn*** stacks but he is not especially remarkable on [ whether expanded or not and on Flippers and his bashing campaign on Jamie Schoolcraft's work has been been despicable.

Since I don't want to damage the reputation of anybody doing positive things for magic (and Todd Lassen actually does), members talking about his work with untrue statements or excessive "religious faith" should realize that they put him at risk of getting the opposite result to the one they seek. They should check my posts to see how thorough I can be with my lists and stop bashing at other craftsmen...

There is nothing wrong in liking Todd Lassen's work but, to properly help magician's here, members should remain factual in their reports (good is naturally ok) and not initiate religious wars based on their own prejudice.

"Pressure generates counter pressure"
Sigmund Freud
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
ToHan
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Hello.

JB magic – Liberty gravity flipper with non exp.shell.

Flipper:
The insert have no visible groove/rubber band and have a small riled edge. The edge does not go inside the shell so you have to adjust your fingers a little bit when open it – no problem. When it was new I got a noise when open it so I took it apart and adjusted it a little bit. The flipper look perfect, nothing to see on the back when it is closed and its work like a dream.

Shell:
The shell fit ok to the flipper. The deep of the shell is similar to other shells I have – it cover the edge almost if you understand. Schoolcraft exp. Liberty shell has a little better cover on the edge and it fit the JB shell 100 %.

So with 2 shells and a flipper as one coin....well…

The flipper and shell have the same year if that is important.

I like it and have used it a lot.

Hope that help, CPH

Thank you for posting the videos MB, some god hints for using the prop there.

Torstein
mitchmarkl
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Quote:
On 2009-04-08 03:26, Lawrence O wrote:
When it comes to [, Todd Lassen has been selling expanded [ which edge does not fully cover the coin's one.
He did some sets with [ fully covering the coin's edge but these were special orders and not expanded [: both can be easily seen on his site and blog.

The fact that very prolific genius inventors like David Neighbors support Todd in developing their new gaffs with him, does give him a commercial advantage in some situations and this is fair.

However he didn't invent neither the [ nor the expanded [ nor their combination: the fact that Troy Hooser created some great routines with Triple Threat doesn't grant Todd any special manufacturing rights. He not only didn't invent the Flipper nor the gravity Flipper but didn't ask permission or give credit to the creators. Thus he cannot expect a more favorable treatment than the one he gives to other creators who didn't come his way.

Now if some members here keep on bashing other manufacturers, making false statements about Todd Lassen's work, and even though I'm reluctant to do negative reports and keep trying to be as fair and positive as possible, I will have to publish the long list of Lassen's dissatisfied customer either by the quality of the coins they received directly from him or who reported on the net how he mistreated them before or after the sale. Such complaints were scattered on the net and in forums but, Todd Lassen having been around for a longer time than other craftsmen, it is much longer than he imagines and definitely longer than what blind followers would expect.

This list, like all the ones I published on other matters, is fairly impressive. By personal taste, I prefer making positive lists but "sect followers" making false statements presented as testimony about the quality of Todd's work, either to brag or for any other reason, may end up forcing me to publish it.

Todd is doing a very good job most of the time but he has a despicable contempt for his potential customers. On some products he is doing a better job than most like C/S, C/S/B, magn*** stacks but he is not especially remarkable on [ whether expanded or not and on Flippers and his bashing campaign on Jamie Schoolcraft's work has been been despicable.

Since I don't want to damage the reputation of anybody doing positive things for magic (and Todd Lassen actually does), members talking about his work with untrue statements or excessive "religious faith" should realize that they put him at risk of getting the opposite result to the one they seek. They should check my posts to see how thorough I can be with my lists and stop bashing at other craftsmen...

There is nothing wrong in liking Todd Lassen's work but, to properly help magician's here, members should remain factual in their reports (good is naturally ok) and not initiate religious wars based on their own prejudice.

"Pressure generates counter pressure"
Sigmund Freud


Lawrence, Firstly let me say, I personally have never bashed a coin gaffer on the Café, or anywhere else. I have respect for their work, and I believe they provide an invaluable service. Let's face it. They could probably make a lot more money doing production machine work for other manufacturers, than they make producing custom coin gaffs.

Next item. I never got a response from you about the "Lassen Coin" you purchased on E-bay.
I really was just curious as to it's origin. As I mentioned there are some dishonest dealers on E-bay, who sell products that are not as advertised, and a lot of people don't realize they have been taken advantage of.
To compare the quality of a custom made item that was not purchased from the original craftsman, to another item which may or may not have been purchased from the original craftsman can't possibly be a valid comparison.

Third. I'm not saying that my opinion should be any more important than anyone else's.
I am also not some sort of "religious faith" coin nut, groupy, although I'm sure there are some out there.
I have seen and used other coin gaffs, and from my experiences have formed an opinion. Opinions are not gospel, they are only opinions, and everyone has a right to theirs.

Fourth. As we have seen, in recent posts, it is sometimes difficult to know who produced the first of anything. Do you know who fist invented the [ or expanded [?
Coin gaffs go back before Reginald Scott's Discovery of Witchcraft published 1584.
Even though it has been advertised and accepted by many that Bob Swadling invented the Gravity Flipper, there is now some doubt as to how true that statement is.

I believe that if the original inventor of a gaff isn't known, it may be difficult to give them credit.
I also believe that if someone physically changes the design of a coin gaff enough to make it work better or perform a different effect, that it's a bit dishonest for another gaffer to immediately copy that gaff and effect and just change the name, and market it. That again is just my opinion, and I'm sure there is a fine line between copying and reinventing.
mitchmarkl
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Quote:
On 2009-04-08 03:26, Lawrence O wrote:

Now if some members here keep on bashing other manufacturers, making false statements about Todd Lassen's work, and even though I'm reluctant to do negative reports and keep trying to be as fair and positive as possible, I will have to publish the long list of Lassen's dissatisfied customer either by the quality of the coins they received directly from him or who reported on the net how he mistreated them before or after the sale. Such complaints were scattered on the net and in forums but, Todd Lassen having been around for a longer time than other craftsmen, it is much longer than he imagines and definitely longer than what blind followers would expect.

This list, like all the ones I published on other matters, is fairly impressive. By personal taste, I prefer making positive lists but "sect followers" making false statements presented as testimony about the quality of Todd's work, either to brag or for any other reason, may end up forcing me to publish it.

Since I don't want to damage the reputation of anybody doing positive things for magic (and Todd Lassen actually does), members talking about his work with untrue statements or excessive "religious faith" should realize that they put him at risk of getting the opposite result to the one they seek. They should check my posts to see how thorough I can be with my lists and stop bashing at other craftsmen...



Lawrence, I can't believe that you would threaten to publish some sort of rubbish that may or may not be factual, and could damage someone's reputation. Peoples opinions on this site or any other site should be considered just that; opinions.

These opinions are not any sort of documentation, and even if they were they could easily be taken out of context or even edited.

I would consider it blackmail to threaten someone on this site just to further your own beliefs.
The Wizard of Hearts
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Lawrence 0, shame on you! Blackmail, sir, is beneath even you. It is fortunate that Todd Lassen's exclusive client base excludes you. Perhaps now, as you re-read your post, you'll see why?

Can anyone remember the old "Blasted" coin trick with the [ and the insert C/S? I bought one from Joe Berg back in '70. It had a small brass tray, a small footed glass, and the previously mentioned coin set. In setting up, the tray was "handled" (not to completely give away the M.O.) and then the silver coin was placed on the tray and covered with the inverted glass. Then the copper coin was tapped against the foot of the glass, and "bang!", the copper coin joined the silver under the glass. If I remember correctly it was a British Half-Crown and a British Penny. I was thinking that with proper coins, you could duplicate the trick and then use the flipper to reverse the process: making the copper leave the silver and re-appear outside the glass.

Just a thought...

Rich men become annoyed when they find their money can't buy them everything. -- Kelvin Throop
runawayjag
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Blasted is still a GREAT trick sadly forgotten by most magicians. And, yes, it was made with English coins. Someone later produced a version called Blasted, Jr. which used a U.S. nickel and a penny. It worked exactly the same way, but the pretty wineglass was replaced with a short plastic cover.

Interestingly enough, Eddie Gibson and Bob Swadling both made effects using the "Blasted" principle. I think one was called Ring of Fire and made kind of a close-up spectacular of the effect and the heat of fire caused the "work" to happen with the tray so it wasn't necessary to touch the glass.

It is still a GREAT trick.
GeorgeG
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Tom G
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Lawrence, while you do publish amazing lists of effects and variations in print and video, threatening to publish a list of TL's unhappy customers and calling his customers "sect followers" is plain childish. You sing the praises of the French coin maker, why spend time being concerned about TL?
mitchmarkl
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Quote:
On 2009-04-09 09:12, Tom G wrote:
Lawrence, while you do publish amazing lists of effects and variations in print and video, threatening to publish a list of TL's unhappy customers and calling his customers "sect followers" is plain childish. You sing the praises of the French coin maker, why spend time being concerned about TL?


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