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dmueller Loyal user Central Illinois 227 Posts |
I have been involved with the SCA for a good number of years and I am fairly new to magic. I was wondering if anybody had any tips for incorporating a little slight of hand into my persona? I am doing some digging around on SCA sites as well, just curious if there are any other players here who might be able to help.
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dmueller Loyal user Central Illinois 227 Posts |
Disregard, I guess I should have used better search terminology. I tried unsuccessfully and then turned around after posting this and found about a dozen or more threads. Mods, feel free to delete this topic
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Magic an the SCA go very well together. Throw yourself together a nice little periodesque act and you'll find yourself invited to feasts and revels all over your Kingdom. Fresh, new entertainment is always high on the list of the various event planners in this somewhat insular community.
I nearly received an AA at my second event for entertaining the princes children and eventually was elevated to the rank of Laurel for my excellence in the magical arts.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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dmueller Loyal user Central Illinois 227 Posts |
Im not really wanting to perform as a feature in an event. I just want something to kinda play around with. Maybe a little impromptu entertainment and what not. I enjoy playing but I avoid the local shire due to politics. I tend to not go to the more localized events because the local people take the fun out of it. My hobby shouldn't make me miserable. As a laurel I am sure you can understand what I am talking about.
I am not in it for the regocnition, but when I was still playing with the local shire we hosted a kingdom A&S (this is a few years ago) I actually burned up a few vacation days to help in getting the site ready and spent the entire day working the event. I didn't get a chance to attend any classes because I was busy all day. Not even so much as a thank you, but the Seneschal/Autocrat's kid (14) worked troll for an hour and ended up with her 2nd AoA because of it. I don't play those kind of games. So I take my marbles and play elsewhere. So basically I don't want to do anything to fancy, maybe more of a medieval "street magic" type thing. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Magic is a great way to supersede your local shire and get recognized on a Kingdom level. My first senechal was a psychopath. Seriously. When we finally were able to confine the Kingdom authorities that the guy was a complete wacko and get a court of inquiry called no one testified against him as they had all received phone calls telling them if they did their houses would be torched. He played a good game though and they eventually elevated him to the rank of Pelican. The first one ever given out for terrorism.
Magic allowed me to play with whomever I choosed and to stay out of the fray of local politics.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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dmueller Loyal user Central Illinois 227 Posts |
I am fairly handy with a wood lathe. I know a propery turned set of cups and balls would certainly look period especially if couch in a period style patter. Any other suggestions as to some periodesqe effects that pack small but play big?
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
For several years a performed as a "Wandering Trevere'" -- often alone, but sometimes with others, to Camps and Households (Kingdom of the West). I would perform magic usinf objects at hand or from several pouches in which I had numerious "Period appropriate" effects. I woukld also tell stroies and sing (leading to requests for magci please). Yes, I received a AA for my performing magic, bu that was unexpected. I also performed at 'royal' banquets, and was ever prepared to perform on request as a Gusari Persona. I did teach-ins on Period Appropriate Magic and assisted people in 12 countries on Period issues.
The I moved to Tennessee where everyone hides in cabins and was told people didn't appreciate being distrubed during dinner and evening hours. I am willing to use my experience to assist others here at the Café, but am rather strict on attempts to pretend something is Period when it is not. For example, no card tricks -- they are not period -- period (SCA -- renfair OK, but not necessarily in character). However, card techniques can be used with placards, leather scraps, etc. It is fun to adapt favorite tricks to period appropriateness -- and amzing to spectators. Just remember, no pockets, no tables, no fancy apparatus.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-26 06:11, funsway wrote: How are card tricks not period? In 1593 Horatio Galasso published a book devoted to tricks with playing cards called Giochi di carte belissimi. Many of the effects in it are stilled used today, including the 21 card trick. Last time I looked the SCA timeline spanned the thousand year period from 600 to 1600. At least it did in my home Kingdom and nearly everyone I know in CAID was an Elizabethan of one sort or another.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Ah -- I am beginning to understand the difference in our "SCA view." I never took the view of what was normal or popular in my Kingdom, but within the entire genre of the Medieval World. Would that card book have been read in Moravia before 1600? Nope - therefore a person with a Slavic persona would not have done card tricks. A person with a Carolingian persona would not have done them in any reach of the empire. Yet, all SCA events are filled with anachronisms and nothing gained by pointing out that a person's sword style didn't exist for two hundred years after hsi persona. Most feasts are hardly that period accurate. Should magicians try for a higher, or lower, standard?
For me, the fact that any person will attempt to perform magic at an SCA event is to be applauded. Fine tuning can come later. I honor your opinions though, and wish we could have exchanged them around a bardic fire.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Since one of my performing persona's is Elizabethan it is perfectly period for me to use playing cards and perform card tricks. Other persona's may vary.
You were not being specific in your dismissal of cards and card tricks. You simply said cards were not period. This is not the case. Cards may not be period for your persona but they are complete proper for mine, and many others. But since the SCA in general and a vast majority of Ren Faires are scarcely period in any shape or form it really is a moot point. "Periodness" is a personal decision and one must set their own personal benchmarks as to what they will allow themselves to use or not.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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dmueller Loyal user Central Illinois 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-27 14:38, funsway wrote: Me thinks perhaps you have forgotten what the A on the end of SCA means. On the topic of cards, for purely entertainment purposes who cares if something is OOP if an attempt is made to keep things at least appearing to be in period. With that being said I would not perform card tricks for an A&S competition unless I had some dang solid documentation. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On the topic of cards, for purely entertainment purposes who cares if something is OOP if an attempt is made to keep things at least appearing to be in period. With that being said I would not perform card tricks for an A&S competition unless I had some dang solid documentation. And the documentation clearly exists An official letter to King Charles the VI in 1408 clearly describes the three card monte being practiced A 15th century transcription of the poem Renart le Contrfait (written in 1342) clearly links playing cards to tregetours (magicians) De Viribus Quantitatis (1493) the first manuscript containing conjuring tricks including ones with cards In 1517 King Francois I (an amateur conjurer himself) invites the famed Spainish card magician Juan de Alman to court. Walter Scot writes Discoverie of Witchcraft in 1584. Tricks with cards described A Noteable Discoverie of Cozenage published in 1591 by Robert Greene details card sleights In 1593 Horatio Galasso’s releases Giochi di Ccarte Belissimi was printed, again mentioning several card tricks So it is quite clear that many card tricks are period appropriate from the 14th century onwards.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
"With that being said I would not perform card tricks for an A&S competition unless I had some dang solid documentation"
Asa former Minister of Arts & Science and judge at competitions I often had to coach others in juding performance magic whne woven into a Bardic Performance -- joyfully more frequent because of my efforts. Documentation is only required when doing a "Period Piece" and the topic areas usaully would not allow for a magic performance. To use magic to enhance a song or story is judged like any other visual aid like garb or props. Being "Consistant to person and period" would be important -- which is all I have been saying in recent posts. If an Elizabethan offered an Islamic poem while doing Linking Rings he would receive low scores. A Knight of any pretense performing a magic trick to demonstrate that a 'Knight of the Rose" was expected to be "well rounded in the arts" would receive high marks for anyhting reasonably considered 'period'. If a story teller embellished with a magic flourish or two, it would be judged on its impact on the audience. If a contest were held for magic performance only ( I never achieved that), then a lisitng of tricks with some reasonable attempt at period authority might be in order, but I would hardly require "proof" akin to a Master's thesis. Tricks using eggs, rings, ropes, nuts , baskets, etc. woul dbe allowed without documentation as "logically consistent" with Medieval times. Playing cards for some persona would require deeper documentation -- which is why "For me" card tricks should be avoided for new comers to SCA perfromace magic. Why make the game difficult?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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dmueller Loyal user Central Illinois 227 Posts |
I am considering a version of the Charming Chinese Challenge using either period looking coins, or perhaps a set of wooden disc's with holes in the center. One of my "talents" is cord making. So I could theoretically even make my own cord to use instead of the normal ribbon.
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DanielGreenWolf Veteran user Waterbury, CT 363 Posts |
Thank you guys for pointing out why I never joined the SCA. hehe
I have, however, been hired by SCA groups to perform for their faires. Proving that the best SCA groups don't care about how many anachronistic jokes you make, but how entertaining your show is. I make references to Geeks, video games, Hitler, Elton John, Star Wars, and many other non-period things. I used to talk in a thick Irish Accent but then realized that no one could understand me, so now my accent is "tinted" with Irish. I used to be worried about having historically accurate stories with being a Bard. Now, I make them up if I need to (which is I'm certain accurate for the Bards of back then). This may come with working in Renaissance Faires professionally, but I've found the less you care, the less even the strictest "SCAZI" will care. Just keep things comfortably period and be entertaining. If you're not entertaining, all of the period appropriate garb in the world wont keep you from sucking. ;-) |
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Lion Dope New user York PA 88 Posts |
"SCAZI"- I love it!
Couldn't agree with you more Daniel. - Mike |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-27 22:12, dmueller wrote: I'm sure you could get away with performing a card trick if it looked something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWImtgLU28s
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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DanielGreenWolf Veteran user Waterbury, CT 363 Posts |
I love using the Highlanders for card stuff. They look great and handle suprisingly well!
This is an odd coincidence, but during one of my pieces I say, "This looks like your card, it smells like your card (I proceed to breathe the card in deep)... don't ask" We've never met in person, I've never seen you perform, and I absolutely love your performance, I just think its great how twisted minds think alike. Great video, Master Payne. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Yes, Highlanders (the 1864 poker deck) were a godsend. They're the perfect deck for the early period performer. Since the basic design of playing cards remained virtually unchanged from the early 16th century to the late 19th they blend in perfectly for all my early period performances. Cheap too compared to the awful unfinished Great Moguls I used to use. My only complaint is that they're too thick to fit three of them in my card sword.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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bluemagic Loyal user 271 Posts |
Where do get highlanders cards
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