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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Any person who gives their life in the service of others is a significant contribution. I don't give a hoot about parts per capita ratio.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Does this mean some of us are ready to reject the calculus which makes measure of lives as if they were weights on a scale? Three of them are worth five of those or ten of us?
I won't doubt the good intentions of those willing to go places and risk using force to do what they believe is right. Probably no need to remind all here that the road to he** is paved with good intentions though perhaps its also time to find out who's ordering the roads paved.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
At least they died FOR something.
Most people just die.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The roads in Afghanistan and Somalia and ... are probably going to get lots of paving.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I think you are all correct and I love you all....
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
MagicSanta - are you okay?
Perhaps you should see a Doctor - not a chiropractor - a Doctor - and not of philosophy - but of medicine - real medicine - not herbs etc - though I'm feeling full of energy since I started drinking a few glasses of unsweetened cranberry juice each day. Perhaps try a glass of unsweetened cranberry juice. It has quite a tarty taste - you'll like that. Destiny Australia has had a rash of deaths in Afganistan lately. Our participation has bipartisan support from the politicians but diminishing support from the populace. One of the recent deaths was of a young man whose wife bore his first child 4 days before his death - heartbreaking. We are there to help the Afghanis get their act together (something I believe people best do themselves - individuals or nations)and to help prevent further terrorist activity emanating from that area. I suspect we are all on the wrong side of the border there. A lot more of those unmanned drones in the hills across the border might be politically unpalatable but would do more to stop terrorism. The other reason we are there is to stop a flood of cheap heroin from Afghanistan. So some of our more disciplined young men and women sacrifice their lives to save our less disciplined from the temptation of heroin. Destiny |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Destiny, from the land of my wife's birth
If by sacrifice you mean a senseless ritual that results in the slaughter of the populace on both sides for the benefit of the few in power, then I suppose you could call it sacrifice. The Karzai government is in deep up to its neck in heroin trafficking, as are the various warlords and the Taliban. The heroin issue is strictly a MacGuffin. And wouldn't it be wonderful if those disciplined young men and women had the discipline to organize and say no to senseless war? All the best, Jack
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Destiny, in the land of Jacks wifes birth, and the land of the coolest accents on the planet, I salute you and all your population. You rock and your people, the brave and fine people of Australia, shot down the Red Baron, the Red Freakin' Baron! No one else could get him, you all did, you are the best!
Jack, I support you brother, if I was there in the Brooklyn, I'd hug you. Hang in there man. I don't know what a MacGuffin is but I salute it as well...MacGuffins rock man. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Hey Magic, great, see you at the No Nukes demo later on! BYOM! (Bring Your Own MacGuffin).
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-09 10:50, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: With France rejoining NATO and the American policy being slightly altered towards more civilian support (schools, hospitals, women's employment, administrative training) and less military domination, the figures are slightly different now. It is significant however that some Americans didn't realize that Germans and France despite their disagreement on "Freeing Irak" had increased their support in Afghanistan for America to be able to reallocate troops in the region and not to carry alone the fight against the fundamentalists muslem and their terrorist methods. Since a few days, the allied forces are for a while lead by a French general: this just to underline that even when friends disagree on something they can remain friends. Thank you for mentioning it in your initial post.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-09 18:38, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Yes. This means as Santa points out that there are different levels of involvment, not just numbers on a page. A dead soldier is a dead soldier. You can not look at numbers on a page and tell me about sacrafice.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
There are many ways of looking at a situation Danny. Why do you dismiss all but your own?
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-10 11:15, Dannydoyle wrote: Danny, A dead soldier is a human being with a family that is ruined for at least two generations... whether he was friend or enemy. The Shoah or the Goulag massacres are not statistics despite their huge numbers: they are huge human dramas. It's hard to promote love and respect and it's worth it, but the cost is enormous. Let's bow to each of the ones who put their lives at stake irrespective or statistics
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Lawerence I am afraid we are on the exact same page here sir.
Yes.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-09 18:38, Jonathan Townsend wrote: That seems to be the spirit of many of the posts. At least, so long as the lives are from "our side". I'm not sure whether or not anyone here has expressed the thought that lives of people on "the other side" are just as valuable. Quote:
On 2009-04-11 06:49, Lawrence O wrote: And irrespective of politics? I suppose I'm a stinker for raising the questions above, I'm just curious how those other lives fit into the equation.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
When the nazi ideology spread peacefully (in some countries) and militarily (in others) over Europe, it was carrying a huge hope for a new political order and improved economics thanks to a socialist and nationalist system (nazi means "national socialist" as you may recall). My father resisted this "progress", was arrested as a "terrorist" and sent to a concentration camp as a "red triangle" (if this means anything to new generations).
In my equation (to use your words) it is not a matter of "politics", it's a matter of values. Values sometimes have to be defended at the risk of our own lives but they can only spread peacefully and thanks to their humanistic content. Our Taliban enemies in Afghanistan truly believe that they are defending their values: we have to prevent them of imposing them forcefully but it will serve no purpose to succeed militarily if we do not convince the Afghan population peacefully. Thus we have to help Afghanistan in building its own administration, its own schools, its own economy, its own humanistic values within its own culture, and be exemplary in our demonstration to the population about our values. They resent our politics for being military and we need to show them that our values are worth defending not for political reasons (even though these exist), not because we are stronger (which is not clear over the long term), just because these are more humanistic values which will make their lives better. So in my equation, I feel sorry that we have to loose the lives of some of our brothers and sisters because we defend humanistic values where some of them risk their not less precious lives for political reasons (power and dominance of their leaders) and lack of respect for the beliefs of weaker people.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
So, in your math how long will it take them abandon their laws, traditional habits and learn to worship the cartoon mouse and eat bacon cheeseburgers - and be happy about it?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
The bombings will continue until they learn the ways of peacefulness and humanistic values.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-11 20:16, landmark wrote: Not that I really wanted to get involved in this thread but peacefulness and humanistic values is based on the way we see it and not on the way they see it. Our perceptions of this is one-sided. As hard as I try I cannot see things from their point of view but I am sure it exists. |
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