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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Preparing Coin Edges for Stage Use (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Tony Thomas
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Inner circle
North Carolina
1239 Posts

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I have just viewed Levent's Ultimate Guide To the Miser's Dream. By the way, great DVD at a very reasonable price. Levent teaches how one can prepare the edges of coins (silver dollars) with a dremil tool and vice grips. The end result that he showed had notched teeth around each of the coins to help grip for stage manipulation related to the misers dream.

Here is the question - I was thinking about preparing my edges. I usually do stage work (not close up). But I was concerned that these teeth will be too visible for stage. I read other posts here at the Café on preparing coin edges. Others guide you toward gunsmithing files that I assume put more subtle lines in the edges that are more similar to the original coin edging. Is this true, or is the end result of all home edge jobs on coins as obvious as Levents. I would say his edges are visible (and unusual looking) within 20 feet. No disrespect to Levent (his stages I'm sure are larger than my stages). I'm trying to assimilate what I am getting from the Café with what his video is showing. Do any of y'all notch out your coin edges Levent fashion?
From the Encouraging Magic of...
Tony Thomas
www.magictonythomas.com
Levent
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USA
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Hi Tony:

The reason for milling the edge of the coins is to help palm them. But frankly this coin modification is only necessary if you have trouble palming the coin. Sadly, I was born with terribly dry hands and I would have a tough time handling the stack of 13 silver dollars in my act if I didn't do this.

Perhaps you can do the trick perfectly without altering the coins? After all for over a century, thousands of magicians have done the Miser's Dream with ordinary coins.

If you have bad hands like me, there might be another option for you.

A few weeks back I attended an excellent lecture by David Roth and Dr. Rubinstein. During that lecture Mr. Roth showed a rosin that he sells called "Roth's Rosin". By applying a small amount of this material in the milled edges of an ordinary coin, the edge is made a little bit tacky and as a result the coin is a bit easier to classic palm. But the coin still looks perfectly ordinary even when viewed close-up. Perhaps an application of "Roth's Rosin" might do the trick for you? I think DennyMagic.com carries "Roth's Rosin".

Levent
http://www.LeventMagic.com
Tony Thomas
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Inner circle
North Carolina
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Thanks Levent - I was hoping you would respond. I really am enjoying your dvd's. By the way - Roth's Rosin is the same thing as violen rosin that is sold in a music store for about $2. I have some and it does help, as does a small rosin bag sold at bowling alleys for bowlers.

Some of my coins do have smooth edges and I thought some milling would give me that extra confidence. I have been reading recently on the Café about re-edging coins and then I saw your DVD. I would like to re-edge them, but I don't think I can afford to make them as noticible as yours. Does anyone ever notice the teeth marks edged in your coins?

I'm wondering if there are many others that use your methods to edge coins. Maybe I am concerned about nothing and it won't actually matter in a performance. Either way, thanks for responding...
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Tony Thomas
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Conus
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Eddie Joseph explained how to use ordinary violin rosin to the outer edges of coins as a palming aid in his old book "Coins & Money Magic."

You can easily purchase a block of violin rosin from a music store for about $2.50. I've had the same chunk for twenty-five years; you don't need much when you opt to use it during the dry months. Follow Joseph's simple instructions...

Of course -- if you wish -- you can always choose to purchase "Roth's Rosin." I think I saw the price advertised at about twenty bucks.
DanielCoyne
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Western Massachussetts
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I was playing around with some jumbo coins and found they kept slipping out of a Tenkai palm. I rolled the edges in some Mr. Mole's Sticky Wax, which is a candle adhesive, and found that this helped a lot. You'd have to experiment with how much wax is enough to help with palming without screwing up whatever else you need to do with the coin, but it might be worth playing with.

Let me what you end up doing.

-Daniel
Levent
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Hi Tony:

If you are concerned about a spectator noticing the specially prepared coin. Then I suggest you get new coins so that the original milling is sharp to aid in palming.

About the coins I use for the Misers Dream. I think that the average person would have a tough time seeing the deep cut grooves on my coins from 20 feet away. I know this to be true because your suggestion made me test this. I placed the coin exactly 20 feet away and rested it upright against a black velvet background and I could not see it and I was looking for the grooves.

Keep in mind that when you do the Misers Dream the coins and the magician are in motion which makes the grooves harder to see.

The only time I do the trick at a parlour magic distance is at my lectures. For the first part of the lecture I show some basic misers techniques with a stack of about six heavily grooved coins and the magicians aren't aware of it until I point it out.

As far as my act is concerned you can see on disc 3 of my DVD set that the only milled coins are the ones in my left hand which holds the bucket. The coins from the air which are produced from my right hand are not milled. So if you are
still worried you can do that.

I want to ask you, if you make coins appear from the air and someone notices a grooved coin would it really matter in terms of the entertainment value of the trick?

Best regards,
Levent
http://www.LeventMagic.com
Tony Thomas
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Inner circle
North Carolina
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Levent -
That is an excellent question, and one that I was actually wondering myself. I believe milled coin edges even if they are noticible will not decrease the entertainment quality.

Your suggestion for using new coins with the misers dream is a good one. That is what I will do. Thanks.

I'm still interested in milling some coins. My interest was broader than the misers dream application. I am casually looking around town for a very fine "needdle file". I will experiment on some coins. I would like to have them grooved or roughed up, but still look "normal" from fairly close.

Levent BTW- Thanks for breaking down that Al Flosso routine. When I got back into magic a couple of years ago that routine was one of the first I came across on Youtube. It is very special to me. I have probably watched it 50 times, and laugh out loud every time. I'm thrilled to see his genius explained. Question - Did he publish his routine anywhere, or did you have to work out his steps on your own? Also - Did you know him personally?

Tony
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Tony Thomas
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Tony Thomas
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Inner circle
North Carolina
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Hey Levent -
I just made it through the third DVD. Your routine is such a crack up. Fabulous. I love your gimmicks and creativity. I even caught the extras after the credit. Thanks...
From the Encouraging Magic of...
Tony Thomas
www.magictonythomas.com
Levent
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Hi Tony:

I'm glad you liked my Miser's Dream DVD set.

In answer to your question, as a child growing up in NYC, I certainly used to visit the Flosso Hornmann magic shop on 34th street and met Al Flosso and his son Jackie. But I didn't really know them well. As far as I can tell Al Flosso's Miser's Dream routine is not in print and I don't think anyone has fully explained it until I produced that video last year.

As far as needle files as concerned. I sometimes see items like that at on sale at American Science and Surplus : http://www.sciplus.com

Best regards,
Levent
Tony Thomas
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North Carolina
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Thanks Levent - I appreciate the connection to that web site. Take care...
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Tony Thomas
www.magictonythomas.com
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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I tried to cut the coins like Ron McMillian in his Coin Manipulation book. They turned out really looking bad. They were real dollar coins so I spent them.

I found if you take a jewelers (which is like a coping saw) and use the finest tooth blade, then go around the edge of the coin with only 2 strokes, at about 1/16th of an inch apart, will make the coins Downs Palm much better. I do this to my Nielsen Coins also.

I also suffer from dry hands and this makes it 100% sure grip of the coins and can separate a coin easily from the stack.

Or other concern was will the audience see the cuts if they are larger. Well, that depends on the place you are performing. I had seen McMillian in a huge theater that seated several thousand. He looked very small to me from my seating position. Could I see the coin? Yes, because it flickered in the stage lighting. Could I recognize that it was a sliver dollar, NO.

If you perform in a living room or close quarters, then they would see the edges look funny. If you perform on television with close-up shots they might also see the defective shape of the edge. But if you perform in a 2000 seat theater with a music pit separating you from the 1st row, I doubt it.
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