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Michael Messing
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Quote:
On 2009-04-30 18:20, Kevinr wrote:

This one looks liek the best one on the market!

http://illusionartistry.com/chair.html


That is the European Chair Suspension. I own one and am very satisfied with it. I know the Sommers & Mak Chair Suspensions are very popular. The price is right, the weight is minimal, etc. but I definitely wasn't comfortable with it when I purchased one. I rehearsed with it one time and immediately sent it back for a refund. I have Kyle's e-book and it is excellent and he really has taken the safety issue head on but there is still a pretty low weight limit for doing those versions.

I stayed away from the Chair Suspension for a lot of years. Then, I saw Gunther Puchinger's version that was being sold by Chalet Magic at the time. It was fantastic but the price was too high for me. Later, I bought a chair suspension from Sandy Rhoades. It was built directly from the Harbin plans and would easily hold 175 lbs. I loved using it but it was too heavy and large to use in a person's house or for a smaller show.

I used it in my illusion show for 11 years and then sold it last year. I had read several posts about the European Chair Suspension but there isn't a lot out there on it. I found one on eBay that had been lightly used and was selling for a good price. I bought it and I love it.

It's much lighter weight than the one I used before and it's rock solid when a person is properly positioned on it. I tried it out with my assistant (she's a 5'4" tall and weighs about 115 lbs.) and she said it was much more comfortable than the one I used for 11 years.

I know the price is considerably higher than a Sommers or Mak version but it's really worth it. Even with all the ways to make it safe that Kyle explains in his e-book, I still prefer a more solid version than the inexpensive ones. To me, it's not worth the risk. By the way, the price on the European Chair Suspension in the link above is pretty good.

I also own a Flying Carpet illusion and I think each has their place.

Michael
todd75
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Kyle-

Maybe someday we can pull this off. I agree that between the two of us, we could create something pretty powerful and unique.

I did my flying carpet routine last night and had the mom that booked me chase me to the car. She kept wanting to know how I made her 10 year old daughter float in the air. Too funny!

PRESENTATION IS EVERYTHING!
BrianJ
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When do we get to see it? sounds really nice.
todd75
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I am working on the video which will come with full performance rights. It will be something you'll have to buy but the price will be very affordable. As far as producing the actual illusion itself that breaks down, that is all going to depend upon how time consuming it is for the machine shop to get them out and of course, cist is an issue as well.
magic4u02
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Sounds great Todd. if you need any help or suggestions or simply someone to bounce ideas off of, just let me know.

Kyle
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Kevinr
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Quote:
On 2009-05-09 14:05, todd75 wrote:
I am working on the video which will come with full performance rights. It will be something you'll have to buy but the price will be very affordable. As far as producing the actual illusion itself that breaks down, that is all going to depend upon how time consuming it is for the machine shop to get them out and of course, cist is an issue as well.


cant wait please let us know..
todd75
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I have plans to start the video taping this week but we'll see. My schedule is jammed packed this month so I have my fingers crossed.
magic4u02
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I hear ya there Todd. Let me know when you create more hours in the day or can clone myself. lol
Kyle Peron

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JamesinLA
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This could be of great benefit to the magical community to have a generous offer of an "audience tested" routine offered for consumption, especially one that has been auidence tested for all of about a month and a half. I realize this doesn't really compare with Kyle's experience with the chair suspension--Kyle has been doing his routine for 5 years or so I believe--but aren't we all so lucky.

Jim
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todd75
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What?
magic4u02
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I am with Todd on this one. What?

Jim: I know you and I know Todd very well. I am not quite sure what you are referring to. If you are saying Todd doesn;t have experience, you are wrong there as Todd has a ton of it. We have talked many times in regards to both illusions.

If you are saying he does not have experience with the chair suspension, he does indeed. BUt I think he is referring to the Flying Carpet illusion of which he not only knows a ton about, he has developed routines and functionality that I personally think is top notch all the way.

PS: I have been doing the chairs a lot longer then 5 years lol. But I alsoknow Todd has been doing his flying carpet illusion and research and knows what he is talking about. I totally would back up any project he works on.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Kyle
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todd75
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Thanks Kyle!
magic4u02
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No problem. I think it was just a bit of misunderstanding or reading into soemthing that really is not there. Happens a lot on the Café. lol

Kyle
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revmike
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Thanks Kyle & Kelly for everything yesterday and hope someday I see you and Kelly perform the Chair Suspension.
The magic is not in our sleights and illusions, but instead in our ability to bring love and joy.
todd75
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Me and James talked on the phone once regarding the flying carpet. I believe he modified one to break down as well if I remember correctly. Can't imagine what he is talking about!
JamesinLA
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Sorry, guys, but I disagree. I also think this is an important discussion to have, not because of the specifics of this particular situation, which are material, but because of the issue in general.

I remember Todd a few years ago saying the chairs suck and the carpet is the only way to go. Then months or a year later it was, the carpet sucks and the chairs are the only way to go. Todd even confirms this on this very thread where he talks about how he found the carpet to be lousy because he couldn’t create a good routine for it. And now he’s back to, the chairs suck and the carpet is the only way to go because NOW I’ve got a great routine that is so good I’m going to offer it for sale including “the song” that goes with it. (Search the Café’s past threads to prove this history.)

I remember Billy Macomb in an interview complaining about people prematurely publishing routines after they had used them for “only a few years.” Here we have a routine that is less than a few months old.

I’m with Billy Macomb. I know from personal experience as a street performer, performing the same routines over and over for thousands of people over many many years that a routine evolves in ways you could not imagine without that exhaustive experience in front of real audiences. I would not call a routine “audience tested” after a month.

I have been doing my carpet routine for five years. I don’t use “a song,” I have a complex sound track with voice over, sound effects, and four musical cuts all blended together. Kyle has been doing his chair routine for MORE than five years.

I’ve known my carpet routine was extremely effective for five years. I haven’t had to change my mind over and over about it.

Kyle, you say Todd knows a lot about the carpet and its functionality. What makes you think those are his ideas? He called and picked my brain about my carpet a little while back, he even tried to buy my carpet right before this latest sudden conversion of his. I’m not saying whatever he’s pitching is mine. I assume he got more stuff from other people too. All I’m saying is that, from Todd’s own admission, he didn’t have a workable routine until a short while ago, and that before that, his carpet routine was so mediocre that he stopped performing the carpet and mistakenly blamed the illusion itself.

I believe Kyle’s experience and his book speaks for itself. For him to compare himself with you just doesn’t work for me.

I wonder how Todd’s opinion is going to change a few months from now?

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
g0thike
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The best childrens levitation in living room parties is a broom suspension.

I usually pick the bday boy/girl to help me perform an illusion.

G0THIKE
todd75
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Jim....wow what a surprise!

As mentioned in this very thread, I have used both. I would not say that either of the illusions suck in general. The reason I tested each of them over a period of time was to see which one worked better for my style and comfort level. For me it took some time but the carpet is the winner for me and I don't have any plans for that to change.

When we talked and I offered to buy yours, it was because I was interested in the fact that it broke down. I found someone to make them so they can break down and fit into a suitcase on wheels which is great. I can assure you that I did not steal your idea! I have never even seen your carpet!

Posted: May 10, 2009 10:48pm
FYI- my flying carpet routine is more than a month and a half old. it has taken me years of trial and error to get it to where it is today. I would never release something I just started doing a few weeks ago. It has recently been finished being put together so that it gets a great reaction.

I am sure that any entertainer will tell you they have had routines they have thought were great but ended up not turning out as they thought it would. We all learn from trial and error!
magic4u02
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Ok I have to admit I am in total shock right now. I know both of you very well and I am stunned to see you Jim go off like this. It is not like you to do so regardless of what you feel or think may have happened. This obviosuly looks like someone is upset over someone else "stealing" ideas, tips or concepts from soneone else. I obviously know nothing about this at all.

All I know is that Todd knows what he is talking about and I have had the pleasure to talk with him a lot regrading both illusions. I can only judge a person based on what I personally have seen or heard them say or do to me.

Now if this is indeed a personal issue of someone being upset over something being "stolen", then please refrain from conducting the aregument here in a public forum. It would make better sense to email or pick up the phone and talk it out. Obviosuly you both are man enough and gentlemen enough to be able to discuss your differences like adults.

Only my opinion.

Kyle
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todd75
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Thanks again Kyle!

Jim: I can understand where it would "look" like I can't make up my mind which illusion I am going to use in my show. For awhile I was stuck between which one whuch is why I tested both over and over. I am VERY picky about what I will and what I won't put in my shows- period. I admit in the thread that I originally thought the flying carpet was a bad illusion. I say that for many reasons. The way the gimmick is positioned, the fringe used, etc. etc. is all a bad idea in my opinion if you get one from a dealer and perform it as is. What I did was modify the gimmick, get rid of the fringe, get rid of the swords and move the magnets. I have no idea if you did any of this on yours or not. Like I said, I have never even seen your carpet. I would never want to steal your ideas. The fact that I offered to buy yours should tell you that I never had any intentions of stealing or ripping you off. I just remember us talking about the illusion over the phone. I did not steal anything from you and would hope that you are not suggesting that I did as I would take offense to that. I'll even be happy to send you pictures of mine which I am sure looks nothing at close to yours as I designed mine personally. I'd even be willing to help you with ideas on yours if you ever needed any.

The rountine I am using has been a work in progress which has taken quite a long time to develope. It has been recently that I got the routine finished with all of the comedy lines, music. etc. but again- a work in progress.

I've used the chair suspension numerous times as well as the carpet. I've even modified some other carpets for other performers and sold them. So far everyone has been very happy with theirs.

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