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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Preservation - Signed Card in Sealed deck +more » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mayniac
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Hey Kit, when are you going to send out your version of the effect? I'm looking forward to reviewing it.
Kit
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Hi Manyiac,

I have been working on this for a long time now and planned on releasing it some point this year. Obviously Stephane Jardonnet and Shawn Farquhar have or will be planning to release their own variations. I will be looking into both to see if my handling and gimmick is similar, obviously if it is, I won't be releasing mine.

Mine can be made within 5 minutes, no angle problems and can be reset if needed.

In my opinion this effect isn't something you want to be performing 10-12 times a night, for obvious reasons, but the reset is there if needed.

But, for now, I will be waiting patiently to see Shawn Farquhar's version when/if it is released, and I will also be looking at Stephane's.

Kit
lunatik
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Shawn Farquhar said that he'll be releasing his version after FISM 2009. I've seen him do it in person and it is amazingd!!
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Tim Jahn
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I had a conversation about this with Suux88 Via PM a few days ago as well. The gimmick is not new. I myself came up with the same thing a few years ago and have been using it ever since. However I didn't try to "Put it out" because I knew that this was not an original idea.

However, Since no-one has stepped forward and released this (Myself included) I'd call it fair game. Shawn has not come forward to release anything like it. (And with all due respect has been promising a release for two years). So why not. I don't believe this method is published anywhere. (AS far as card to sealed card case). If I'm wrong about that, Please correct me and point me in the right direction.

I hope Suux88 has some success with it if he does decide to release it. The only thing that I don't like is that now everyone will know how to do this.


Now... As far as the stacked deck thing goes, Darwin Ortiz himself has a method published in one of his books (Can't remember which off hand) detailing removing the cellophane from a deck of cards opening the deck, stacking it, returning it to the box and resealing the cellophane. So this has defiantly been published before using the same method as Suux88 uses.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
Thomas Kwon
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Quote:
On 2009-04-12 17:02, Tim Jahn wrote:
So this has defiantly been published before using the same method as Suux88 uses.


Too bad for chris.
Lseeyou
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Suux88 shared this with me and I confirmed to him that this method is already available and published.

Congratulations to Suux88 that independently came up with it.


Cheers
Suux88
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I think Tim Jahn meant to say that the idea for factory sealing plot has been done.

Elicio I looked up the source you gave me and it's a gray area because the routine used is completely different and done before hand, where cards switch places in 2 sealed decks.

nonetheless
if people say my method is Shawn's method, and that it's already been published then it can finally be settled it's not Shawn's trick and he has no right to publish it after FISM...
Lseeyou
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Suux88 - I only said that the method/setup is already published - Card to sealed deck.

The original routine from Greg Gleason:
Quote:
SIGNED CARD TO SEALED DECK - A card is selected and signed by several people from a blue backed deck and lost in the deck. The deck is spread revealing the selected card face up, however, there are no signatures. The card is turned over to reveal it has a red back. The magician immediately removes a sealed red deck, shows ALL sides, removes the cellophane, breaks the seal, and removes the deck. The signed blue card is found to have replaced the red mate in its exact position!


Hope it helps.

Best,
Elcio
Tim Jahn
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No.. I meant to say that removing a deck of cards from a deck, Stacking it, And returning it to a card case and resealing it has been done. And published. With cellophane.

If Suux88's METHOD of loading a card into a sealed deck has been published before, I've never heard of it. Unfortunately no one can say whether or not its the same as Shawn's method, Because no-one knows what Shawn's method is. Of course, Shawn has not published it so......

What is Greg Gleason's method? That's something that these two will have to hash out.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
Lseeyou
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Tim,

Suux88 method it's the same as Greg Gleason and you can find it in Theatre Close-Up dvd.
Suux88
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Since my method is greg's
and since all the scrutiny I get is that my method is exactly like Shawn's because I presumably reversed engineered a trick that's not on the market to take apart

We can expect Shawn not to release it because the method belongs to Greg Gleason
edh
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This has nothing to do with Shawn's method. I agree with Tim. If Suxx88 decides to release this it has nothing to do with Shawn. Shawn just saying that he plans to release this after FISM does not give him the right to have the method not be published before hand. Isn't it the unwritten rule that whoever brings a routine/method to market first IS the creator?

OTOH if its Greg Gleason's method that is a different story. And Shawn should not release his if his method is the same as Gregs. Nor should Suxx88. However if all three methods(Gregs, Shawns, Suxx88s) are different than all should be allowed to publish their methods.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Lseeyou
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Suux88 don't let this thing put you down. Up boy!

Shawns method it seems (for what I read here at the Café) that Cyril took from him so he made this type of effect famous and Shawn didn't like it. It's their problem not yours.
If you know that you independently came up with this method don't worrie! This takes time and trial&error to get it done so this is great for you and you need to feel good about it.

You achieved your goal after seeing the Cyril video - to create a method that achieve the same (signed card inside a sealed deck). You need to understand too that if it's something that is already performed by somebody the method could or not be published because it could be created only for a single performer. There are effects like this out there, not published for others to do but they were created by somebody and normally they have exclusively right's reserved.
After seeing a performer doing an effect I think it's not ethical and I repeat ethical to release an effect to the market that it's already created for somebody without consulting the guy/team that had done it. The next step is to discuss with them if there's conflict with the methods etc. If it's an improvement or a new method I think there's no conflict to publish but this is something for the creators to discuss.

Regarding markets it's a jungle out there... launching products without patents, registrations the creator knows or should know that if this is not made someone will copy, reverse engineer it and market it.
This is something not easy task and you see a lot of big companys claiming ownership of their products... so the first that publish or patent it normally it's the owner in contrary proof.


Please don't get me wrong for what I wrote, I don't claim I'm right or wrong, it's just my opinion.


All the best!
Tim Jahn
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Just for historical purposes, This is a link to a thread here on the café in which I first posted about my version of this effect in 2007. (A few posts down the page).

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......start=30

In it I describe my effect a little. My handling is different than Suux88's as I don't use this for an ACR ender. In fact this post was made before I had even seen Cyril's ACR ender. The method I use is the same though.

The point of this is that if you do a search on here you will find lots of posts like mine in lots of threads titled "Signed card to sealed card case" and the like. Which is why I never pursued publishing it.

As far as Shawn goes its a day late and a dollar short. He should have published this a while back.

As far as Greg Gleason goes, I'm afraid I don't know his method so I'll have to take Elcio's word on the matter that its the same. If so... Then its published and that's the end of it. The record has been set. If not... then I see no reason why Suux88 should not release this. (As long as he does his homework and confirms that his method is indeed different from anything else out there).

See... This kind of stuff is the main reason I never did anything with mine a few years ago. Who needs the headaches.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
Suux88
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Quote:
On 2009-04-12 22:22, Tim Jahn wrote:

As far as Shawn goes its a day late and a dollar short. He should have published this a while back.


Thank you Tim

I also want to mention I don't use this as ACR and it was my mistake to post it as ACR thinking people would be familiar with Cyril.

In fact I use it as an effect on its own or a Card to Wallet, but instead of wallet, a Sealed Deck of Cards

I am looking for a BIG NAME and good Reputation Magician here on the forums to give an 'honest' Review of this for me here on this thread and spread the word/love if they HONESTLY like it.

Chris
Ryan_B_Magic
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Your effect is your name. How is anyone going perform that in normal conditions?
Suux88
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Quote:
On 2009-04-13 01:00, rydogg6016 wrote:
Your effect is your name. How is anyone going perform that in normal conditions?


Thanks for your brutally honest opinion the effect sucks

I always perform this... I used to get away doing this with a Slit and non-examinable box for over a year

how can you not perform it...

The card to wallet plot is cake

The deck switch plot is no harder than pulling off the extractor as they sign the card
Ryan_B_Magic
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I just wanted to let you know what I mean by it sucks is no one is going to perform it for stage or closeup and no one can perform it for street magic but no one really does street magic. It appears to be a good effect but it seems like you can only do it if there are two people you and the spectator and no audience.
Suux88
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If you don't think it's practical consider this
with my method you can also do this trick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLtfO17R2AM&NR=1
but of course not using a stooge deck but your own
can't get anymore fair or practical than that

[Long Story short - criss has someone think of a card, that then disappears from a normal deck and re-appears in a sealed deck that has been sitting in view the whole time]

Cheers
Robert M
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Having seen Shawn perform this at the IBM / SAM convention in Louisville last year, I had a feeling that Chris had reinvented Shawn's trick, and I told him so. I'm glad that Chris decided to contact Shawn directly - that's the way to do it.

However, I had forgotten all about Greg Gleason's "Signed Card to Sealed Deck" (copyright 2006). And, alas, the preparation of the sealed card box and loading method is the same as Chris'. The only difference is that with Chris' examinable sealed card box, the cellophane appears to be intact on all sides, which is a nice touch.

Kudos to Chris for coming up with this. But, I'm afraid that this should not be marketed even though Chris' routine(s) is different than Greg's. Not to mention the similarity with Shawn's routine, which I *believe* uses the PH gaff.

Robert
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