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pwolverine
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Melbourne, Australia
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Tim, It seems to me that Shawn Farquhar has been performing this effect and winning with it for close to ten years now. He did it when he was in Australia at our convention and it was fantastic. It doesn't mean he has to reveal his methods to any tween nobody that asks him to try and claim ownership. He is a working magician, that actually helps develop our craft. I can't see the same for you. Were you performing this effect pre-2000, and can this be verified at all? If the answer is no, I'd leave it alone.

Shawn has always been a fair and approachable person, and I think perhaps because he is so approachable, people seem to like attacking the good work that he does.
Irishghost
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Where do people get the info that magic can be protected under copyright. I went to a lawyer to get two effects and methods copyrighted and was told after spending some money that I or anyone else can not copywrite an idea! Don't believe me, spend $500.00 to find out LOL
I get to gaff some cool stuff for some cool people
The Mac
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Irish is right, an idea cannot be copyrighted. An expression of the idea can be though. Lets say Shawn put out his effect in a text document which is copyrighted. One then re-wrote that text document changing the sentences like for example:

Shawn : double lift showing the selected card
rewrite: show the spectators chosen card using a double lift.

The re-write is perfectly legal because the EXPRESSION (exact words) is not the same.
Steve Hook
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Irishghost, Mac, et al:

I respectfully submit that I hope we're not going to go into a discussion of legalisms. There have been multiple discussions about the laws regarding effects, illusions, concepts, and so on over at Genii Forum and even the lawyers there couldn't agree on some of the specifics.

What I saw as the most important part of this thread was the idea that someone could come up with a unique method and not have it replicated....because the "magic community" supports that person's creativity.

It was a red herring to say "he can claim any method and say it's his". Shawn (whom I do not know personally) has apparently been using this method for several years. It is a good enough method that it helped him win several prominent awards in our community.

Strict legalities aside, some here seem to have lost their sense of "just do what's right", especially from a "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" point of view.

The other threads I've read through over the years regarding copyrights, etc., have left me thinking it's pretty hard to get effective patents and copyrights.

But when we go through that door vs. the door to mutual respect and honor, we're avoiding what we really ought to be doing for each other in, as Horus mentioned, the "magic fraternity".

- Steve H
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Long live Lowell and Richie!
Suux88
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First off, I would like to comment on Shawn saying that my selling point of "NO Slit" is exposure to another method - Hardly true (people still don't know workings, or even know how to get it in the right position)
My argument is:
Then all these new effects where it says NO STRINGS, NO MAGNETS, NO BLOWING, NO DOUBLE Stick TAPE, NO SWITCHES etc. are all exposure and shouldn't be allowed according to Shawn; evidently that is not the case.

I know what Shawn's improvement is, but it's messier and harder to work with, so it's hardly an improvement if any.
but since he is here exposing methods and worse... PM's (note p = private, NOT PUBLIC msg), maybe I should just tell everyone how the trick works and end all this nonsense and effect

Terrible Low Blow

And Hook fyi, everyone that posted here saying it's similar to Greg's has actually PM'd me that it is an improvement at one point or another, not to expose PM's.

Chris
Shawn Farquhar
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Hi Chris (SUUX88),


I want to make sure everything is kept clear and on track.

I still think mentioning th slit is not good but I can see your point too.

You do not know what my improvement is as I have not told you so I am certain you are not aware seeing how you admitted you have never seen me perform the effect and I haven´t exposed it to you ...

As for posting the PM´s from Tim Jahn, I had no other choice as he was lying abut the content and tone of the PM´s. I poster yours to show the members of the Café what we had discussed in case there was any misunderstanding in reagrds to our association.

Tim Jahn posted ealier in this thread the following which was an outright lie:

"These PM's were not only rude, But totaly out of line. These PM's were regarding my support of Chris. Instead of starting a conversation with me, He chose to berate me and cry like a baby talking about all the awards that he won and asking me what I've done that could possibly compare to the greatness that is himself. Only since his PM's have I been upset and posting as such."

I have no issue with independant creation, as was the case of Greg Gleason, but Chris, yours is just a self stated reconstruction of a routine you saw Cyril do on YouTube. You make this point clear in your video presentation so I don´t know what else to say. Do what you must as far as your threat to expose the method you think I use, but it will only reflect badly on you and your own sense of ethics.

I realize you are young an keen to make a name for yourself in magic and that is admirable. I even wrote you privately and congratulated you on your reconstruction of the effect, but nows the time to start working on your own original idea, plot, sleight, etc ...

As always this is just my opinion and you can take it for what it is worth.

Sincerely,

Shawn Farquhar
Now typing in Mexico where it´s a $1.00 an hour!!!
Irishghost
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Quote:
On 2009-04-15 15:03, Steve Hook wrote:
Irishghost, Mac, et al:

I respectfully submit that I hope we're not going to go into a discussion of legalisms. There have been multiple discussions about the laws regarding effects, illusions, concepts, and so on over at Genii Forum and even the lawyers there couldn't agree on some of the specifics.

What I saw as the most important part of this thread was the idea that someone could come up with a unique method and not have it replicated....because the "magic community" supports that person's creativity.

It was a red herring to say "he can claim any method and say it's his". Shawn (whom I do not know personally) has apparently been using this method for several years. It is a good enough method that it helped him win several prominent awards in our community.

Strict legalities aside, some here seem to have lost their sense of "just do what's right", especially from a "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" point of view.

The other threads I've read through over the years regarding copyrights, etc., have left me thinking it's pretty hard to get effective patents and copyrights.

But when we go through that door vs. the door to mutual respect and honor, we're avoiding what we really ought to be doing for each other in, as Horus mentioned, the "magic fraternity".

- Steve H


Point well taken. I just thought I would bring it up because a lot of people threaten lawyer in the hopes of scaring people not to release. If the effect was created without knowing the method then so be it. I am not taking sides but other recent effects namly a hook up for I T work is now being questioned as being stolen yet major distribution and magic shops carry it and so not get involved in ethics. Not blaming anyone as this is a business with really no enforceable rules. Food for thought! Not hear to **** anyone off!
I get to gaff some cool stuff for some cool people
Dan McLean
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I fulfilled my Fibonacci obsesson with
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Not to take away from this . . . lively discussion but would someone mind PMing me concerning the reference to the "Paul Harris's gimmick"?

Not sure what's being referred to there. Of course Paul has so many gimmicks. And a source would be helpful too, DVD, book, etc. Chances are I already have it.

Much thanks.
Kline
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Hey everyone....does this use a thumbtip ? no no a Sanada gimmick ! I'm so sorry, I was sitting on the couch with my new son and decided to jump on the laptop and see what I've missed.....and THIS is what I stumbled upon......hmmmmmm
While I'm sure Tim took his lunch hour @ Wal Mart to type such a rude and hateful email and Shawn is spending his hard earned money to defend himself - I believe we are we are not comparing apples to apples here - We all know and understand that Shawn is the definition of a true professional yet we know nothing about Tim
Tim, I don't know you from Adam - how about a few credentials, maybe then we can all ,although I doubt it, alter our opinion about you.
You seem like the type of guy that just wants to be the one EVERYONE talks about and I'm not too sure this is the way to do it.Oh they will talk but as a "professional" who wants to publish an effect on the market - an extremely small market at that - Do you honeslty think this kind of bridge burning will help sales, regardless of how people feel about Shawn, you or even the effect.
Please don't be so hateful on a public forum - it only makes you look like the Ass.
Just my opinion
Steven
Steven Kline
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Irishghost
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Quote:
On 2009-04-15 22:44, Kline wrote:
Hey everyone....does this use a thumbtip ? no no a Sanada gimmick ! I'm so sorry, I was sitting on the couch with my new son and decided to jump on the laptop and see what I've missed.....and THIS is what I stumbled upon......hmmmmmm
While I'm sure Tim took his lunch hour @ Wal Mart to type such a rude and hateful email and Shawn is spending his hard earned money to defend himself - I believe we are we are not comparing apples to apples here - We all know and understand that Shawn is the definition of a true professional yet we know nothing about Tim
Tim, I don't know you from Adam - how about a few credentials, maybe then we can all ,although I doubt it, alter our opinion about you.
You seem like the type of guy that just wants to be the one EVERYONE talks about and I'm not too sure this is the way to do it.Oh they will talk but as a "professional" who wants to publish an effect on the market - an extremely small market at that - Do you honeslty think this kind of bridge burning will help sales, regardless of how people feel about Shawn, you or even the effect.
Please don't be so hateful on a public forum - it only makes you look like the Ass.
Just my opinion
Steven


Congrats on your newborn magician!!! Now that's magic.
I get to gaff some cool stuff for some cool people
ITMagic
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What a bizarre thread, some one openly admits to directly copying something they saw someone else do and now they want to release it? Surely even children can see that isn't right, yet some of the children here seem to think he should release it.
I think if you feel the need to hurry to market because you want to release before someone who has it as their signature effect, or worse, because you know when they will release it and want to beat them to it, it's probably a good indication that you shouldn't be releasing it at all.
As for Tim's vitriolic diatribe, I suspect there are some serious issues behind that, he seems to be at least jealous if not a complete nutter. At least he made good on his promise and his profile seems to be gone, and with his supporters in mind I can't help but be reminded of the "tall poppy syndrome"

Suux saw something Cyril did and came up with a previously released method, why is Shawn's name even mentioned here, it's obvious he shouldn't try and release it as his own.
ITMagic
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In that last sentence "he" refers to Suux, I wasn't very clear there.
bcookmagic
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seattle wa
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Hey there Shawn, Its really a bummer when you work on something and others come in and try to profit from somebody else's hard work. I sure hope that someday the powers that be will stop allowing anonymous users on here. Suxx88 may we all know who you are? Brian
If your not having fun doing what your doing....dont do it!
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Lseeyou
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If you have the oportunity to see the performance by Shawn Farquhar in the 25th International Magic Competition DVD please do so. I can only say WOW.
The invited spectator (a magician btw) scratch his head because he couldn't believe what he saw in his own hands!!!
This is not good this is perfection! Now I can understand why he didn't release it yet...
Shawn doesn't deserve the pressure on him... very sad but I understand why people wants this too.

Shawn hope you win FISM2009 Smile

All the best
sweetypie2019
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Atlanta, GA
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I, for one, sincerely hope Shawn realizes these were the rantings of two ill-informed people and does not waste another minute thinking about it. I have seen and met Shawn on a couple of occasions. I have been wowed by him each time and found him to be nothing short of a gentleman and all-around nice guy. I can't wait to cheer him on at FiSM!
"Live as though heaven is on earth. Work as though you don't need the money. Sing as though no one can hear. Dance as though no one is watching. Love as though you've never been hurt. Dream as though all wishes come true."
BLSmagic
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Shawn is a very generous magician who was very open to to discussing effects with me one on one at Winter Carnival this past year.
My screen name has changed to "Bryan Swaringen."

www.BusinessEntertainer.com www.MagicPromoReel.com
niva
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Malta (Europe)
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Shawn I eagery await your release. As I already told you when we met 3 years ago, I am still waiting for this. I much prefer this from someone who has thoroughly tested it and performed it for many years.
Yours,

Ivan
lunatik
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Tim's profile is no longer available
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
niva
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Kudos!!
Yours,

Ivan
Shawn Farquhar
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I have given SUXX88 two days now to do something here he promised to do. In a PM he said he would retract his statement of knowledge of my method and apologize to the Café members for his deceit. I guess I should have known he would not keep his word.

I suspect by now he has a new name here at the Café and will continue to do whatever he wishes...

___________
Suux88

New user
Posted: Thu, Apr 16th, 2009 - 2:36 AM (EST)

Doesn't matter, I'll apologize for saying I knew your method, but that thread just ****ed me off so much, and some comments you made about the slit, and publicizing PM's

***(contents of the PM are edit here as it is about another magician who he tried to trick using a alias and although relevant to the whole thread is not relevant to this posting ... and I'm not here to divulge PM's unless they are necessary to explaining my position.)

You don't have to worry about seeing me ever again
I don't care about my rep as a magician, I am not a creator nor do I try to be, I just got lucky and my studies as a med student far out way magic by a long shot

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