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Kevin Cook
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To those who read tarot cards, what do you tell clients who ask how the tarot can predict future events?
Steve_Mollett
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Like runes, dice or the 'holy bones' (see Joshua), tarot is just another variant on 'casting lots,' the concept being that a divine agency controls the outcome.

A variation is the psi theory that the 'lots' are random, but that they serve as a focal point/trigger to pull associations from the psychic's mind; associations linked to the psychic's subconscious clairvoyant and/or precognitive abilities.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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dmoses
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Nice answer, Steve!
Very concise!
"You're a comedian. You wanna do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes."
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JohnWells
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I would further nuance the second possible scenario suggested above by saying that any sort of precognitive abilities, assuming they are even possible (they may be; I don't know), aren't strictly necessary.
I tend to see the interpretation of a random set of lots according to a fixed system of interpretation to be, more than anything else, an exercise in brainstorming. The cyclic tendency of history, I think, accounts for most apparent predicting of the future.
Tom Jorgenson
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I think there are two extremely complicated things going on here: 1: the knowledge of one's layed-out life plan/span and 2: the communication of that information to the conscious mind/reader/'psychic'.

The Tarot, I explained, are the symbols and patterns, an interim LANGUAGE, that is understood by both the human conscious mind and the whatever-it-is that knows all this stuff but has no tongue as we know it. The individual reader learns the language, and the more they understand the better they are IF they can keep uncluttered by dogma, ego, and sundry assumed strictures (theories).

This explanation was why I could tell other tarot readers to not interpret my layouts: the cards were talking to me, not them.

This explanation also explained why other systems work as well. They're ALL languages between the planes.

Worked for me and I still believe there is truth to the reasoning.

HOW it all happens is a whole 'nother thing and a separate conversation.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
TonyB2009
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If a client asks me to tell about their future, I tell them simply that the future is not predetermined. All the cards can tell me is things about their general personality and the forces affecting their live right now. What happens in the future depends on how they deal with the forces affecting them now. And if they are optimistic and positive they can make the most of the opportunities life throws at them.
If I feel this answer is not enough I ask them to tell me what specific aspect of their future they are worried about, then do a three card spread and talk out their problem with them.
The Tarot has no predictive powers; it is merely a tool to focus your intuition. A Tarot reading is really just a therapy session by any other name. I try to let people talk about their problems and look at them in a more posotive way.
Slim King
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I had a tarot reading yesterday at Ripley's Believe It or Not and it was RIGHT ON!!!
I've read many books on the subject and even written one Smile ... This was IMPRESSIVE.

So to answer the question ... it works well Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
IAIN
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I tell them it works by eating a specially hand reared psychic spider...the tarot are just a ruse...
Steve_Mollett
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A Leng spider? (okay, I've got Lovecraft on the brain just now)
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Logan Five
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One of the things I do is to educate clients about the kinds of information the tarot can give. When most people think of tarot readings they think of the things they saw on some tv infomerical i.e like Miss Cleo and storefront neon signs that say " Fortune Telling " and such.

I tell people that the cards can't tell you if your pregnant, the cards can't tell you if Steve is really in love with you. Or, what's next weeks winning Lotto numbers are, or..if they're going to win the Lotto. Those type of questions aren't really good for using the tarot.
But I tell them that the tarot can be used to stimulate self-awareness, personal growth and inner transformation. I find that this approach is rapidly replacing the idea of the tarot as a fortune telling device. I also tell clients the cards act like a map of our personal lives, both exterior and interior ( the mask and the psyche ). A " flashcards of the self " as one tarot writer puts it.

As a reader, I want the cards to empower the sitter to consider new ideas and possiablites. By exploring the sitter's " inner-world " with the use of the tarot symbolism, the sitter can take charge of what's going on in his/her life to effect growth and change. That is the difference between using the cards to " tell " the future and using the cards to help one consider future choices and experiences.

Tarot writers Mary Greer and Rachel Pollack has written on this subject and I highly recommend their material.

Rick~
Self concept is destiny..
enriqueenriquez
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The tarot is an illusion.

In conversations with Bill Cushman, he coined the term ‘irresistible illusion’ to define it.

An irresistible illusion is one that works even after one has been made conscious of the illusion. In the specific case of the tarot, it works because our brain will automatically search for patterns and find them in any random arrange of shapes. We project ourselves into the images and find a common ground between our personal situation and the actions depicted in the cards by means of analogical thinking. Give the distance between the original intention of those who engraved the first tarots and ourselves, the tarot’s images have become open symbols, and these symbols are quite useful to expand the semantic fields of these concepts that are giving us trouble at an specific time. We live defined -and entrapped- by language. The words we use to talk about ourselves define the way we think about ourselves. Each notion exists at the center of its own semantic field. Each notion is linked to a certain set of notions that mat evolve along time but still are somehow limited at any given time. That is why at some point, no matter how much thought we give to something, we can’t figure out an innovative answer.

The tarot is a visual language, and as such, it exist in the frontier of our verbal language. Sometimes we can’t even name a thought and an image can embody it. But as soon as the image embodies our thought, it reshapes that thought. Images are crucibles. When we impact the semantic field of our problem with a random image, we are creating a bridge to expand such semantic field and include new words in it. With these new words could come a new way of looking at things.

But all this won’t be possible if the tarot weren’t a projective tool, or if our brain wasn’t so good at making analogies. As soon as we find common ground with the image, the image can push us an extra mile. At this point the images become convincers that are used in a way that is very similar to a hypnotic induction. What is commonly defined as a ‘prediction’ is simply a post-session suggestion. The images pace us. By finding ourselves in them we are eliciting ‘yes’ responses that are based on the common ground we share with these figures. Then, a reader can push us to also accept what falls beyond that common ground. Here, the reader would be leading us to accept certain ideas that seemingly come along to what we have already accepted about the way in which the card feels like us.

At this point the tarot becomes a mood enhancer. After the session, we will feel more able to enact certain attitudes or decisions, which makes more likely for certain things to happen.


Best,


EE
JohnWells
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Exactly. I have said on this forum and in my books that Enrique has the best notes on the Tarot available to the mentalism community. I can't wait for the book...
chmara
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How does tarot work -- well, if you have cards with you. Palmistry is more portable.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara

Commercial Operations, LLC

Tucson, AZ



C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments
Philemon Vanderbeck
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If you know how to read Tarot, you can also read a deck of regular playing cards.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
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"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
funsway
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All divination techniques follow similar pattern that I call Elements of Determination, whether you use cards, a yellow pad or a spreadsheet to make your prediciton (as a Seer. The key is alwasy to get the Seeker to open up about the discordance in htere past that is a barrier to increasing propensity over future outcomes. The NOW is the testing ground for how well you are doing. So the answer is "Tarot Cards" do nothing at all. An accomplished Seer can (and should) use what ever visual imagery and symbol-logic that is comfortable for the Seeker, and never be locked into a single Method. In short, the Seeker reveals their own future possibilities, while the Seer searches for a soluiton path to which the Seeker is willing to commit. We each form our own future by changing our past perceptions. If Tarot cards help you do that then go for it, but explore some other Methods as well.

I speak of Divination as a serious attempt to assist a Seeker, of course -- not just a parlor game. I am just finishing a book "Garden Variety Divination" which uses a Plant Husbandry/Abundance Cycle allegorical construct, and can interlock with any other Method like Tarot, or as a stand alone Method. I'll let this List know when it is complete -- "Everything you want to know about living you can learn in your garden"

anything more I will discuss in PM
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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StuartNolan
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The C G Jung introduction to the Wilhelm Reich translation of the I Ching also provides a useful explanation for the Tarot if "accessing subconscious archetypes through elegant ambiguity" is the kind of theory that takes your fancy.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ching-Book-Chang......5&sr=8-1
"One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde
Steve_Mollett
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While the psychology of 'divination' is a fascinating study all its own, I doubt a reader will use such in-depth analyses when explaining tarot to someone who wants a reading, unless it's for a psych class demo or a skepticism seminar.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Kevin Cook
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Exactly Steve.

I asked what you tell clients when they ask about how tarot works. Enrique's clients in particular, must be philosophy graduates.

A client usually comes to the reader to know how the future will pan out, what will happen, will they meet the right man, get the right job, move abroad? What do you tell the client when they ask how the cards can reveal this knowledge?

Enrique, I can understand how your interpretation of tarot would work when reading the cards for yourself. We look at the cards and focus on the elements of the images that relate to our present state of mind.

But what about reading for other people? Do you just ask what the cards mean to your sitter? How can you interpret the cards without projecting your own thoughts and feelings to the clients, thus altering their perspective?
funsway
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Cook -- "What do you tell the client when they ask how the cards can reveal this knowledge?"

The truth is always a good place to start -- anything else borders on being a charlatan. If you were a medical doctor and a client with worts asked if they should get rid of toads and frogs, what would you say? If you were a psychologist and a client said they had been mean to their neighbor, who had put a curce on them and now they had tooth aches all the time -- what would you say? Why should a "Tarot Reader" or any other Seer type be held to a different standard. The Cards are tools with symbols that can represent different things to different person in different settings. Discussing those symbols (like inkblots) can reveal hidden thoughts, anxieties, fears and other "obtacles" to a person's ability to actualize in some way.

If by "client" you mean someone who is paying for the service there are other ethical considerations having nothing to do with the "power of the cards." It is not advances psychology to make such ethical considerations before engaging in Tarot Reading -- it is an imparative. That is why I have written several books on the subject -- to assist people in achieving life's goals by resolving the mess they have made of their lives up to this point.

Any person going to a Seer for more than entertainment is admitting they have a problem or unresolvable situation. Usually they have tried to solve it themselves and failed, or have received conflicting information on what to do. They may know what to do, but desire someone else to blame for their state -- and possible failure over pursuing a particular course of action. How easy to say, "The Cards made me do it." If, however, a Reading of the Card 'unearths' a course of action to which the Client might actually commit to follow (eat less, excercise more), it is 'magical'. If the Cards Reveal that a person is unwilling to date because of a fear of rejection, the cards might direct that the person see a psychologist. If you instead say, "The Cards are cold -- give me another $20 and I'll see if they clear," the Cards are saying "Run, run!"

If the client really beleives the Cards can predict the future, send them to eightball.com -- it's cheaper.

just my opinions, of course.

contact me PM and I might send you e-copies of my books "Phinomominal Propengicks" and "Fain Faire Sooth" (not about performing magic)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2009-04-28 06:34, funsway wrote:
Cook -- "What do you tell the client when they ask how the cards can reveal this knowledge?"

The truth is always a good place to start -- anything else borders on being a charlatan.


What if the reader believes God guides the cards, or that he has real psychic insight (or both)? In such a case he is not a charlatan, but a believer.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
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