|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Honestly .. A Psychic would have done much better with my 401K ... or shall I call it a 201K now
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts |
Edgar Mitchell walked on the Moon, therefore he's one of the few people I consider a genuine hero. Going right after Apollo 13, for me, he's also one of the bravest men ever to have graced our species.
However, I'm also deeply saddened to see his decline into conspiracy theories about government cover ups about aliens. Oh and the make-me-a-good-singer program exists. It's called the Antares Auto-Tune: http://www.antarestech.com/ |
|||||||||
Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
Tony, a minor correction. Uri has claimed to have helped police forces in their work of finding killers ('Son of Sam' case) and missing persons (Hungarian girl in the '90's). As a general rule however it's the sort of thing he avoids.
|
|||||||||
bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Fake and cheat. They are synonyms but mean slightly different things.
I was with some friends at the weekend. Over a glass or two I put forward this scenario to them, which will make many of you smile no doubt as it appears to be a commonly asked question throughout the world (mainly by men strangely enough). 'If you could rob a bank, in the knowledge you simply could not be caught, ever, would you do it?' What I find interesting about the answer of this question in today's world is the fact that, whilst as a child in the 50s/60s, this question would be met with more than 90% of poor working class people giving an emphatic: "No".... nowadays the honest answer seems to be totally reversed. And it always seems to be justified with the claim that we are being constantly shafted by the corporates (including banks of course) who are dishonest in their dealings with US, so... why not? If that's true, and I for one agree with that, then if I was offered the same deal as Geller ("go try and find us some oil for a retainer of $xxx") then I think I'd start giggling as I reached for my NR IT and m-gn-t. Incidentally, nearly all who said they would take the banks money truly believe (and I believe they believe it) that they are actually honest people. Behaviour which, whether you agree with it or not, is extremely interesting. bobser.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
|
|||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Why do you think Bonnie and Clyde were so popular?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts |
Because they used guns.
|
|||||||||
LukePreston Regular user 138 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-24 00:58, pearljamjeff wrote: I didn't notice any difference in eloquence between the two 'sides', but it would obviously be easier to sound 'inspirational' when waxing lyrical about mysterious forces and amazing powers than when expressing scepticism. |
|||||||||
LukePreston Regular user 138 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-24 14:53, pearljamjeff wrote: This is a little tangential, but not entirely: what would be a good reason to explicitly claim you have ESP if you don't? |
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
By 'good,' do you mean 'ethically acceptable' or 'functional?'
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
Let's try a different term: "Charlatan."
What sets magicians/mentalists/psychic entertainers apart from scoundrels, charlatans, con men? The former group does it for entertainment purposes, and the audience is AWARE that they are using "trickery". There is a difference between someone (however misguided) that truly believes he has psychic/paranormal abilities and a Gellar or James Hydrick. The latter know FULL WELL that they do NOT have said abilities, yet claim that they do and take the money of people who pay them in good faith for those abilities. This is despicable, in whatever way it rears its head. I am a pastor, and I get paid by my church. I believe that their are instances where people have been supernaturally healed, although I have never witnessed it personally. I also know of men who KNOW FULL WELL that they CANNOT heal people, yet under the guise/banner of being Christian pastors/preachers, they bilk innocent people out of their money in "healing services." Which of you, upon finding that a loved one had been ripped off by someone who had been proven to be a fraud (like Peter Poppov-sp?)--a loved one who in good faith believed she would be healed of her terminal disease and instead lost her money and became discouraged, disillusioned, and hopeless--would not react in indignant, if not "self-righteous" anger? I would bet everything I had that every single person reading this would do so if it were his mother or daughter or wife or granddaughter. But because Gellar did much the same thing to other people, it's "harmless" and no big deal. Bottom line: It's nothing to worry about as long as it doesn't affect me just doesn't cut it. If it is defrauding innocents who acted in good faith, it is WRONG and should be decried by every member of our community!
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
|||||||||
Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
^ Truth
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
|
|||||||||
pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
What of those who let the audience draw their own conclusions? It is really necessary to say definitively, "I'm tricking you"? To me that's condescending. Personally, I would never claim that I have ESP, but if someone wants to believe it, I don't see it necessary to tell them they are wrong. Magicians don't go to great lengths to say that what they do isn't real, but then again, they don't have to worry about it as much because people are less likely to come to the conclusion that it is.
For those who choose to claim "abilities," I don't think it's such a clear-cut fine line between right and wrong. Leading people to believe in your ability to faith-heal them, well that lies on the spectrum of being obviously harmful. Leading people to believe in your abilities in order to entertain them, and making it crystal clear that your goal is to entertainment... well now, I don't really see much true harm in that. Honestly, if your grandmother came back from a psychic "show" and said that the most amazing thing just happened... a man claimed that he would read her thoughts. He looked her dead in the eye and then proceeded to draw the exact same picture she had in her mind... how many of you would really be up in arms about that?
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
|
|||||||||
Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
This topic is about Uri Gellar, Jeff. He clearly did NOT do it just for entertainment. He claimed to be real and sold people crystals, etc that were supposed to have supernatural healing powers. I do not see the difference between that and what you freely admit is harmful in the knowingly fake faith-healers. Gellar knows he is not psychic.
Nobody is saying they have a problem with a cold reader or mentalist who is doing a "show." What folks like me are objecting to is the idea that because we do not give the con men a pass, we are "high and mighty" or hypocritical.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
|||||||||
Garrette Special user 926 Posts |
Jeff, here's a list of related questions I have asked many times before (not, I think, on this forum, though) to which I have never received an answer. It touches on your example with the grandmother and also on Scott's comments about finding out a loved one had been conned.
Suppose your mother (or sister or grandmother or someone emotionally close to you) had suffered a loss. Suppose they still grieve. Now suppose that you have seen me in my guise as psychic entertainer and you know three indisputable things about me: 1. I have no real paranormal/psychic/speaking-to-the-dead abilities 2. I have the ability to convince people that I do have those abilities Would you be okay with me providing a reading/sitting/whatever for your loved one, knowing that I would claim to have actual abilities and that I would convince her that I have those abilities? Would you be okay with me providing that reading/sitting/whatever in order to provide some comfort to your loved one? Would you be okay with it if I charged $50? Would you be okay with it if I charged $500? Remember, you know for a fact that I have no such abilities and that therefore any message received would be false. |
|||||||||
LukePreston Regular user 138 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-29 20:50, Steve_Mollett wrote: Good question. Functional reasons might be 'it increases my fee' or 'people swoon at my feet'. To me, those are ethically dubious at a minimum. The only unselfish one I can think of is 'my audience prefers it that way'. |
|||||||||
pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Garrette,
No, I would not be ok with it. The issue here is NOT whether abilities are claimed, faked, or real, but what is DONE with them. Even if someone had genuine abilities, they should not be used in that context.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
|
|||||||||
Joshua Quinn Inner circle with an outer triangle 2054 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-30 01:33, pearljamjeff wrote: Apologies for the derail, but just out of curiosity: why? I mean, I certainly understand how it can be done in a condescending way. But there seems to be a school of thought among some mentalists, which holds that it is inherently condescending and insulting to let the audience know that what they think they're seeing may not be what they're really seeing, irrespective of how that information is conveyed. I've never understood why, especially if the context is the oft-claimed "mere entertainment." If anyone who does feel that way can explain why they do, I'm more than happy to listen.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
|
|||||||||
pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Joshua,
You're not derailing. I think that's a great question. Phrased the way you did seems perfectly fine as I try to listen with my "layperson ears." I was referring to those who go out of their way to tell the audience that it's all "trickery." I think this is one of those issues with a lot of fine lines and therefore less suitable for generalizations. That is the point I was going for... we can't just generalize that one way is "right" and one is "wrong." All the best!
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
|
|||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-30 03:42, Scott F. Guinn wrote: Did I read somewhere that you were a Minister? I can't seem to find the post, but is that correct? If so, is that a "Paid" position? Or is it just a volunteer situation?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts |
Psychic Samurai
Quote: On 2009-04-29 21:38, Scott F. Guinn wrote: |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Readers' comments prove more people realize Geller is just a 'Fake' Kreskin (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |