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misterhyde New user 19 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-24 21:47, yoey2000 wrote: AHHHHHH, that's exactly my point. We make our hands look empty because we don't want the audience to suspect something, i.e. an extra coin. It's the same reason we have an audience member sign their card, so they don't suspect a duplicate. The only quarrel I had was with people who were saying "Audiences don't know anything about extra coins." If they had said, "When performed correctly an audience will never suspect a duplicate coin." I could believe that. But just to imply that an extra coin was too devious for a layman to pick up on is silly. Quote:
On 2003-05-24 21:53, Andrew E. Miller wrote: Is there anything wrong with doing three fly with quarters? I mean, assuming you're performing close-up. |
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Andrew E. Miller Inner circle Southern California 1428 Posts |
Yes there is misterhyde. Noy everyone has good enough eyesight to see quarter go from hand to hand. You have to compensate for that. Also, quarters do not handle as well as silver or a larger type coin. They drop[ very easily and it is not as easy to do magic with them as it may seem.
Andrew |
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misterhyde New user 19 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-24 21:58, Andrew E. Miller wrote: Understood. Despite the difficulty in handling I prefer using quarters whenever possible. And as far as eyesight is concerned, I prefer to perform close-up (sometimes VERY close-up) for nubile young women who, among their other assets, have wonderful eyesight. |
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Andrew E. Miller Inner circle Southern California 1428 Posts |
Well of course. I perform close-up too. Sometimes that is not good enough though for people with poor eyesight. You need to make sure you are using coins that they can clearly see.
Andrew |
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yoey2000 Regular user 126 Posts |
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On 2003-05-24 21:54, misterhyde wrote: Yes, we do show our hands empty to remove any doubt in whats happening. But, I do fail to see how that complies with your arguments above. Its not that audiences don't know anything about extra coins, its that in the performance looks so clean and so natural, it removes any suspicion of an extra coin. |
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Micheal Leath Inner circle 1048 Posts |
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On 2003-05-24 21:54, misterhyde wrote: Like I said, if the audience suspects an extra coin, then the performance is flawed & not the effect. If performed correctly, then the audience will NOT suspect an extra coin or gimmick. |
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misterhyde New user 19 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-24 21:58, Andrew E. Miller wrote: Understood. Despite the difficulty in handling I prefer using quarters whenever possible. And as far as eyesight is concerned, I prefer to perform close-up (sometimes VERY close-up) for nubile yound women who, among their other assets, have wonderful eyesight. |
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Logan Inner circle 2289 Posts |
I would just like to chip in on this intense discussion between Andrew and misterhyde.
The audience, no matter how hard you try to convince them, will always come up with a 'solution'. Be it right or wrong, they will stick with it - sometimes Trust me, I have a friend who is convinced that I have a zipper in my hand in which I hide extra cards... So if such speculations are possible (although illogical), then of course, them saying 'He has an extra coin', whether or not you do, will also flow through their minds...along with other speculations like 'He's got an interdimensional portal in his sleeve' or 'He's got an extra finger'. This is a normal human reaction - to try to make sense of the impossible...often coming out empty handed...or with a ridiculous conclusion like you have a magic chicken sitting on your head that 'pecks' the coins out of your right hand and drops them into your left This is just what they may 'think', but not necessarily what they may 'know'. Take care all, Logan
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal.
Singapore's Hairiest Corporate Comedy Magician! |
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Micheal Leath Inner circle 1048 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-24 22:11, yoey2000 wrote: I fail to see how it complies with his previous arguments also. Quote:
On 2003-05-24 22:16, Logan wrote: I disagree. |
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Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
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On 2003-05-24 21:48, misterhyde wrote: I don't think there will ever be one that looks good. It is impossible to make 3F look good with 3 coins. I have a method that can make 3 coins look like a normal 3F but, it uses a different gaff out-side of the coins making it pointless. Lee |
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misterhyde New user 19 Posts |
I agree with Logan.
I'm sorry Micheal and Yoey coudn't follow my logic before. I'll attempt to simplify it. Most audiences aren't stupid. Micheal thinks an audience will only suspect an extra coin if you're doing something poorly. I disagree, I think (for some coin routines) the "extra coin" is a simple logic jump, the simple "solution" for them even if you do the routine perfectly. So as a performer, the onus is on you to handle the coins as openly and honestly as possible. Again, my only disagreement was with those who said "An audience has no concept of an extra coin." I think that's naive and underestimates the intelligence of the audience. My other point was, if you truly believe the audience is too simple to think an extra coin may be used, why wouldn't you just keep that extra coin in you curled fingers throughot the all coin routines (which is a very natural way to hold your hand, especially if you're holding one coin between thumb and forefinger). Why would you Kaps or Ramsay? You use Kaps or Ramsay to combat a spectators inevitable theorizing that maybe you have an extra coin. In regards to THIS routine I was saying that it would be ideal if it used only used three coins AND looked good. I don't think it looks that good so I'd prefer to use extra coins for a routine that truly fools. Recognizing that my handling and technique will have to cover for that extra coin. That's all. I don't think I'm saying anything odd. |
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Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
How can you agree with Logan?!? I am starting to think you are just bad magicians. I hope I don't take heat from the mods but, if you can't make a 3F routine look good I am sure you aren't that great.
Lee |
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Micheal Leath Inner circle 1048 Posts |
Is it just me who thinks this or is MISTERHYDE contradicting himself? He says the audience will suspect an extra coin, but then he says with proper technique that they won't. Then he tells me that I'm wrong for saying that if the audience suspects an extra coin, then the performance is flawed and not the effect. I starting to get a bit confused by his postings. Anyone else?
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misterhyde New user 19 Posts |
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On 2003-05-24 22:47, pyro_magic wrote: I agree with Logan that most spectator's will concoct some method in their head whether it's correct or not. The method may be as nebulous as "sleight of hand," but it's usually something not just "Oh well, he can break all the known laws of time and space." Who said I, or Logan can't make a 3fly routine look good? By understanding the conclusions your audience may jump to, you can negate them in your performance. Lee, this will actually make you a better magician, believe it or not. |
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yoey2000 Regular user 126 Posts |
Logan,
see theres a difference between thinking of an extra coin, and a portal. Do you really think, that they ACTUALLY think, theres a portal? Its kind of a joke sort of thing because they just don't know how its done. |
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Micheal Leath Inner circle 1048 Posts |
[quote]On 2003-05-24 22:56, misterhyde wrote:
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By understanding the conclusions your audience may jump to, you can negate them in your performance. I agree with you there. Which is what I have been saying. Didn't you say something like, if we don't think that the audience suspects these things, then we are wrong? They WON'T suspect it if you have the proper technique. Back to the original intent of this post, I think that this new version is no good. I don't see how he thinks that is an improvement just because it only uses 3 coins. Just because an effect uses an extra something or a gimick does not mean that a version that use neither is better. |
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Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
I disagree....
If the spectator can peice together a method, your not doing your job right. Magic shouldn't be about methods it should be about that feeling you get when something stunning happens. If you are having spectator coming up with a method, then maybe your effects are bad. Good magicians make spectator's lose all sense of what is right and what isn't. Really, if you have spectator thinking about ways of doing your effects during or after your preformance then you were boring and couldn't keep them into your magic. I am very sad, Lee |
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Micheal Leath Inner circle 1048 Posts |
How is that disagreeing with me? I agree that with proper technique the spectators will have no possible explaination. When putting together a routine, you should think about all of the possible solutions that a spectator could come up with and eliminate those possibilities even if they happen to be right.
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Logan Inner circle 2289 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-24 22:58, yoey2000 wrote: It was a joke about the portal, I was trying to pass on a point - which is that the audience will try their best to come up with a solution to the mystery they've just witnessed! Wouldn't you when you watch a mystery movie? Wondering who's the murderer and why he did it? Human nature. Now, the solution they come up with may be insanely ridiculous (as with my friend and the zipper) or the common 'it's in his sleeve'. I'm sorry Micheal doesn't agree with me when I said that no matter how hard you try, they will always come up with a solution. Your effects may be flawless - you don't flash anything, your misdirection is perfect, etc. But you just cannot stop the audience from TRYING to figure out how you did it! They will NEVER figure it out (that's thanks to your well practiced effect), but they will TRY to quench their 'thirst' for the answer...they'll never get it but they'll happily settle for anything less - whether that be 'He's got an extra coin hidden under his skin' or the magic chicken is entirely up to them. Take care, Logan
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal.
Singapore's Hairiest Corporate Comedy Magician! |
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Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
Ok, I read your post wrong but, mine was more directed to Hyde.
Lee |
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