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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts 
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Thanks Kaliix!
MMc |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-05-05 18:14, MagicMan1957 wrote: Boris Wild also booked another run of his marked decks. All who already produced gaffed backs were allowed to print one FINAL LAST run of his cards. And then it is over. It is just a delay of the printing stop, that is all.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts
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Wait, so does this mean that they do cater to their customers? How truly odd.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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No, they cater to customers, as long as it pays them to.
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Dante_Ravenkin New user Cambridge, Ontario, Canada 90 Posts
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Kalix, thanks for that post, and the effort to get the information!
So I'm curious about all this, after a discussion with a colleague. Reading between the lines, does this mean that printing different coloured decks at the behest of companies like Ellusionist, would cause them to lose the trademark? I mean, I know the Rider Back is USPCC. Through and through. But how about the Black Ghost? Tigers? Etc? Is THAT what may cause USPCC to lose the TM? I don't use gaff cards very often at all, with the exception of Twilight Angels. (and God help us all, should those become impossible cards to find....) But I don't want to see my magic Brethren stifled because they cannot get the cards they need. Nothing against Ellusionist or anyone else, but I'd gladly trade all the special decks in the world, for Gaffs in standard Red and Blue Bikes.
'For Those Who Believe, No Explanation is Necessary. For Those Who Do Not, None Will Suffice.' - Joseph Dunninger
~Kirk~ |
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Maestro Special user 802 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-05-05 21:22, kcg5 wrote: So true, haha... sometimes it does pay to have a little hope. |
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AlienSpaceBat Regular user 152 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-05-05 19:09, Kaliix wrote: Did you not notice that I specifically referred to what Aaron Haid had said earlier on in *this* thread ? 
The problem, of course, is that the 2nd hand message referred to is getting on for 3 months old now - and many posts have been made since by other Café members to say that they have different information coming their way. |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts
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Your hope dies last. I think I made it clear already what will be possible and what not. Said by a representative from USPCC just over the last few weeks as I permanently stay in contact with them.
A different color does not change the look of the Bicycle back, so different colors should be no problem. If you want to perform the Twilight Angels I would stock as much as I can as this will be not possible in the future as long as theyr law department exists. And I think they will stay there for the next time.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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mmreed Inner circle Harrisburg, PA 1432 Posts
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Card Shark - so you are saying that double backs and double facers and blanks will be printed? Just not anything that changes the bike copyrighted design correct?
If that is the case, that's fine... my concern was loosing the standard gaffs. If all this means just loosing custom gaffs that change the design, that is somewhat tolerable since we can go third party for those...
Mark Reed
Wedding and Event Entertainment |
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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Quote:
If all this means just loosing custom gaffs that change the design, that is somewhat tolerable since we can go third party for those... Perhaps not, if you intend on using Bicycle designs. USPCC has expressed a clear interest in protecting their trademarks, which means that they would be obligated to attempt to stop anyone from using their designs. |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1990 Posts
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I would certainly agree with you if you were trying to sell any decks with infringed on their trademark. I'm not sure however, if one only made them for oneself and only used them in there closeup act that USPCC would spend time tracking you down. I could be wrong, but realistically I'm not sure they would care.
Quote: On 2009-05-06 09:38, Open Traveller wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts
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There is a slight difference between things they are not allowing to be printed (like Twilight Angels) and things that can be printed (but don´t have to be).
Any cards with a changed back design (more than just the color) or the Ace of Spades or the Jokers won´t be allowed by USPCC, therefor these kind of cards will disappear after a while. The other decks like double facers or double backers will not be STOCKED by USPCC as their politics is to reduce their storage costs. So two totally different things that both touch our magic community. As long as a magic dealer or wholesaler is willing to buy at least 5000 decks made up for him with double facers or double backers, there will be a chance to get them. But a dealer has to invest a lot to buy these 5000 decks, so the chances are also high that the prices for these kind of decks will increase IMHO.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-05-06 09:55, Kaliix wrote: I agree with you. I thought we were talking about mass production and sales. |
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AlienSpaceBat Regular user 152 Posts
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After all this speculation, I asked Aaron Haid at USPCC. This is his reply to me today:
******************************************************************************** Ian- It is true that USPC does not want to make modifications to our registered trademarks. However, it’s not true that we will not print gaff decks that do not change our trademarks, although every print request is evaluated case-by-case. USPC wants to support the growth of the magic market and community, but as you outlined and have seen on the Magic Café we do not want to do it at the expense of the Bicycle brand. As you note the Bicycle brand is important to the magic community and it’s in all of our best interests to protect it. Again, all print requests are evaluated individually, but for the most part we will print gaff decks as long as they don’t alter our trademarks. Please let me know if you have further questions. Sincerely, Aaron Haid Sr. Brand Manager USPC ********************************************************************************* That seems pretty clear to me that standard utility gaffs WILL continue to be printed. 
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Which gaffs alter the trade mark?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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mmreed Inner circle Harrisburg, PA 1432 Posts
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That is very encouraging.
Mark Reed
Wedding and Event Entertainment |
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mmreed Inner circle Harrisburg, PA 1432 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-05-06 14:31, Frank Starsini wrote: I would assume one like Twilight Angels... or the king on the joker...etc
Mark Reed
Wedding and Event Entertainment |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts
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3 cheers for the non-believers! we some how had faith.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts
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Everybody knows the Boris Wild Marked Deck, do you? There are small written letters on it. This is already too much for them! Every change that change the DESIGN of the back will be impossible. No overlapping, no partly printed, no fading etc. No other card printed on top of the back design. The same with the faces of the Ace of Spades and the Jokers. So no riding Kings together on one bicycle, no hidden texts in the Guarantee Joker.
This is still an interesting range for us the custom card manufacturers and as I still print onto blank Bicycle stock I could do these kind of cards. But this will be no mass production like before. And this is also the reason to come up with a new deck of cards that will not have these limitations...
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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dyrwolf New user The timbers of Fennario 94 Posts
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Looks like a non-event as far as I am concerned.
I won't do any effects that change the faces/backs. IT SCREAMS GAFF. If I can gaff one card, everything is fake. IMHO My DB and DF (which I use liberaly), skinner aces, ect are still fine. Non-issue
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark — that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
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Posted: May 6, 2009 12:03 am 
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