Hi,

I spent a few days learning a couple of fairly simple card tricks recently.

The tricks are fairly simple, but provide good effects. One requires the four aces to be on the top of the deck at the start (it's an Ellusionist trick). So, as we had family visiting at the weekend, I got a deck of cards out, set up ready with the aces...and my problems began. My sister-in-law insisted on shuffling the deck herself before the trick began and so I ended up doing one which didn't require any setup.

Sorry for the convoluted explanation, but my question is: how do I take out a deck and begin a trick without someone wanting to shuffle? Is there any patter, or does anyone have any tips please on how I might prevent this happening or heading it off when it does? I was a bit stumped when this happened. All the demo videos, TV tricks and street magic clips show the audience perfectly behaved and allowing the magician to perform their trick without making it hard work. Never work with children, animals AND family members?

Thank you kindly,
Jim

Welcome to the real world.

Before we go any further, you've got to understand that performing for family and friends is frequently a bad idea. You've got less default prestige because they know you, and they'll feel more comfortable with the idea of being confrontational with the magician. That said, you'll see these people from time to time in the real world as well.

You've essentially got to anticipate the suspicions before they come, and deal with them on your terms. One thing to keep in mind -- it is reasonable for an audience to be suspicious, and it is these suspicions that need to be dealt with and overcome for them to be impressed by a magic effect. Consider it this way -- imagine that 4 ace trick you were planning to do. Now imagine that you can hand out the deck, let them shuffle, and when you take back the cards, you do the exact same effect. Would the trick be better? That's going to change from effect to effect, but I'm willing to bet it'd be a more impressive feat. As such, how much weaker is that same trick going to be if you pull the cards out of the box, and they're not allowed to shuffle, and then you produce the 4 aces?

Now, you probably don't want to have to deal with requests to shuffle the deck, so you'd probably do better to anticipate that ahead of time and work it into the presentation. I don't know the trick you're talking about (you just gave us the setup), so this is purely an arbitrary example.

[pull cards from box] "I'd like to open with what some consider to be a fun exercise for gamblers. Here, give these a shuffle if you like." [cards are handed out, the card box is replaced in the pocket, and you secretly palm the four aces that you removed ahead of time] "Now, what they'd do sometimes, is they'd try to do dead cuts to four of a kind, which is a pretty good poker hand. It's probably nothing more than a fun stunt, but well, there you go." [turn to the shuffling spectator] "How're you doing there? You're pretty good at that. May I have those back? Thanks." [take the cards back, add the 4 aces to the top.] "Now, of all the four of a kinds out there, the best four of a kind would be the four aces." [continue with the trick]

I know which trick you're talking about and as I have had problems performing for friends as they feel they can be "more confrontational" with me as Andrew Musgrave hit the nail on the head with that comment. He's so right about family and friends doing that. But in all honesty, I love this trick and it's so easy to do. I have had no problems with someone wanting to shuffle. They accept a few false rifle shuffles and a false cut as good enough. Maybe it was that particular person. Keep doing it, it gets great reactions. I present it as a trick that "a Magician" showed me and I don't know how the outcome came to be, Patter through the whole effect that "he told me to do this, that, etc", while having THEM do the moves and when the 4 aces are on top of each pile (if that's the trick) and you're not expecting it to happen, the reactions are great. I don't feel many people will say "let me shuffle", maybe a select few. Have you ever thought of palming the 4 aces then sneaking them on top after the spec shuffles (if they do) as someone mentioned that. By the way this is the trick that the Masked Magician completely screwed up on TV. Can't find the thread with the link to the MM. It was hilarious. Even the false shuffle was bad. So hopefully for you many will not want to shuffle the deck. You false shuffle and false cut it and you should be OK.

Andrew Musgrave mentioned the palming, too, as I missed that.

I was going to suggest the same as Andrew about the add on.

Sometimes casually false shuffling in an unstudied manner while talking and looking away from the deck can work.

Another idea is to somehow get the aces to the top after they shuffle and after another trick that allows you to sort thru the cards openly while looking for cards other than the aces.

Good luck.
PM on the way.

You could always start with "Let me show you something" and while you are saying this you do a quick card fan or just dribble the cards before you move into doing your card trick. Don't hesitate, just begin.

As Andrew mentioned above... welcome to the real world. With experience, you will eventually anticipate this and have a plan 'B' in place. It doesn't mean you have to abandon the trick... just delay it until the audience is less 'confrontational'. In time you will learn to perform by your rules, and never let the spectator dictate the rules.

Having said that, there are some things you can do to help avoid this situation. For instance you could routine your show so that your first few tricks don't require set-ups or fancy moves. There are many self-working effects which play big... and you can encourage them to shuffle in the name of 'fairness'. Once they've been given the opportunity to handle the cards before you start, their suspicion will lessen. When I routine my shows, my first few tricks are self-working or ended clean. For instance, for my first trick, I ask if wish to shuffle (most of the time they'll say, "No." My second and third tricks could be shuffled, but I don't mention it. That way, if they ask, I'm still okay. By the time the first few effects have been 'fair' in their eyes, there won't be as much 'heat' when I throw in a gaffed or set-up trick.

This is just the way I handle it... it works for me about 90% of the time. As others mentioned, you could do an add-on. At the beginning of my show I'm usually pretty nervous, so I try to avoid any sleights or hidden moves like that. Do whatever works for you.

Hope this helps.

Dave

It is something called audience control and you will learn it best with experience. You must be in control, not the audience. Several methods given above do work. Generally speaking if you must use a set up deck, you will probably be better off not starting with that trick and simply pulling a deck switch later on. After one of the other tricks that would permit a shuffle, you put the cards in a pocket, after shuffling them a couple of times, and as folks try to get you to do another finally give in, but take out the prepared deck instead. Of course learning card control with shuffling will permit you to appear to shuffle the deck without disturbing the position of your set cards, but this takes a bit of time and practice.

Audience control in such situations involves not letting the audience get a word in edgewise. Just start your patter and routine and keep going, don't give them a chance to say "I want to shuffle the cards". I once saw a magician deal with it when a spectator kept shouting "I want to shuffle the cards" over his patter, he simply reached into his pocket and pulled out another deck, tossed it to the spectator and said, "Knock yourself out." Then he immediately continued with the trick. He got a laugh and retook control.

Basically you must establish you are in charge, not the audience. No entertainer be they comic, singer, actor, or magician can preform unless they establish at the start of the performance that they are in charge.

BINGO!!! Father Photius said what I was trying to say... much more eloquently.

Dave

Wow, thank you so much for the replies, they have given me a number of ideas and help to avoid this problem in future. I'm not a performer at all (yet) and am just in the process of learning a small repertoire of easy card tricks and perhaps some mentalism. As I'm attempting to remember them, I keep using family and friends as an adhoc audience. It's very challenging. As many of you said, they are confrontational simply because they know me so well. I read elsewhere on the board about performing a few in public places and that's all about confidence, I guess.

Palming, sleights and false shuffles are beyond me at the moment. I've just ordered Royal Road and intend to get Card College soon too in order to build up my skills in this area. Patter is one thing that no books or videos can teach and is something I'm aware of needing to work on through experience. This situation was, as you said, all about audience suspicion. If I'd done the few tricks I know in a different order, with no setup needed for the first few, it would have been much easier. I wouldn't necessarily have thought of simply changing the order. But, again that's not possible until I can work out a method of keeping cards in the place in the deck where I want them to be. Practice!

Thanks again for all the help, I feel much better about what I need to do and very much appreciate your time.

All the best,
Jim

Ey welcome to the real world indeed.
Your solution was actually a good one. Just perform another trick is the best solution.
Some other tips have been given here
a) leave the aces in your pocket and palm them out
b) what I once did was use a shuffle machine so the specator cant cheat either
a shuffle machine never shuffles the deck fully and in my case it left the cards on top
c) your friends and families will be the toughest audience. I only perform for them to test my routines

keep on performing, youre doing great!

I was once at a lecture and I secretly loaded a card into David Acers jacket pocket.

Funny story, this screwed up his stack he had in his pocket.

This is similar to shuffling, but he went with it and made the trick work.

-

So what are your options if they are adament about shuffling?

1) Do a different trick
2) Cop the stack/cards you need
3) Keep stack in pocket, load cards after
4) Cull the cards while spreading face up, this will put them back on top

-

Don't be bound to a trick. Just because you want to commit to that trick doesn't mean you have to do it. I know I posted this in a different thread, but if you just follow Bruce Lee's teaching of being like water, your performance will improve ten fold, that I can promise you.

Royal Road has some nice false shuffles that are easy to do. You'll need to practice them to get comfortable doing them while talking and without looking at your hands. If you immediately start shuffling in a casual manner and talking you rarely get someone asking to shuffle. I've never had someone ask to shuffle when doing this. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

...here's a line taken from Wonder Words

Participant: "Can I shuffle the cards?"
Magician: "You could, but it is already done."

Just to give you an "Add on" that requires no sleight of hand.

Put the deck of cards in your box minus the 4 aces. Now close the box. Then insert the 4 aces in the box. So now the "tongue" of the box is going between the deck and the four aces. This will allow you to pull all the cards out of the box but secretly leave the 4 aces in the box for now.

Ask your spectator to shuffle them. When they are done put the cards back in the box. Then talk to your spectators (Patter about what you're about to do). Now when you pull the deck back out of the box bring them all out (including the aces).

Just thought I'd mention that simple method.

As others have already stated though. You're biggest weapon here is your presentation ability which will improve over time. It's great to see you thinking ahead on this. It's a good habit. When something goes wrong try to figure out what you'd do if it happens again. So great work!

Ron Jaxon

This is a great question and illustrates an almost classic situation in magic. Before I go on I'll concur with what was said above that working for friends and family can be the worst possible situation unless you have established a TON of cred first. They tend to assume that they can take advantage of the 'performer' in ways that you almost never get in a paid venue unless you are working for drunks. It's even worse if the family you are working for is drunk!!!

Many of the techniques in magic and card magic in particular are designed to be what I have always termed "Convincers". That is they are used to 'convince' the audience that something you wish them to believe to be true is in fact....true!

Consider the following two situations:

#1- You begin by having a card selected, signed and returned to the deck. The deck is shuffled and then cut and then maybe shuffled again. What are you attempting to convince the audience? That that selected card is not only lost in the deck...but, well, most sincerely lost in the deck.

#2- Now, project the convincer pattern backwards using your trick illustration. You bring out a deck of cards and immediately begin to shuffle the snot out of it. You give it some cuts and then shuffle some more. In this case you are trying to 'convince' your audience that the deck is 'normal', 'not set up', etc. The pattern is placed at the front of the sequence to follow.

In most cases this will work. When it does not there are several fall back positions the most logical being the one you selected and that's to readily hand over the deck, have it shuffled, etc. and proceed with a different trick.

One possible way to use this to your advantage is to have a trick that will allow you to SET UP YOUR NEXT TRICK during the execution of the one you are doing first! This is a great strategy as t allows that spectator to get the "I have to shuffle" stuff out of their system and again, generally it does.

You could also, if you have the skill set, palm off the four top cards and return them once the shuffling has taken place, etc.

The above situation is one reason why my Basics of Expert Card Technique DVD focuses up the basic concepts involved in false shuffling, cutting, controlling, etc. as the foundational sleights in card work. Many, many wonderful tricks that are great without adding a convincer are made that much stronger if you can use these techniques to enhance the impossibility of what you performing.

All best,

Them: "Can I shuffle the cards?"
You: "Of course, trust me it won't matter..."

To me, this particular quote, sets up a conflict depending on your tonality... If the shuffling doesn't matter, then does the whole trick matter at all?

Well.... I'd admit it certainly could set up a conflict if delivered badly!

Like the generally hack line ( that still gets laughs, btw ) "Don't let me see that card, I've seen it before".

Certainly not appropriate for every performer or even every performance... but funny if you can manage it.

I also use a stacked deck. Ever seance I started pulling out the cards and just go right into some false cuts and shuffles I haven't had a problem. Before I picked up on that I came up with a couple of responces.

1
Q: Can I shuffle?
A: You can when its your turn to do a trick.

2
Q: can I shuffle?
A: I don't know, Can you?
(then just go on. If they say yes, the say "well so can I" or "good for you.")

Just be sure to keep it friendly. If people think that you are trying to fool them then they can become hostile. If you are there to entertain and have fun then they will be on your side.