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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Identity (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Joshua Barrett
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I was not impressed with this especially for the cost. nothing out of this world. very over handled I think. some times it seems like 1 hard move is replaced with several easier to excute moves nowadays.
Voldemort
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Quote:
On 2009-07-09 08:09, JTW wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-07-04 16:56, Voldemort wrote:

Quote:
On 2009-07-04 12:55, JTW wrote:
Voldemort,
The ultimate goal is EXACTLY what happened. Mr. Sanders posted to this thread thanking people for voicing their opinions positive AND negative. It makes him better AND its happening in real time.

He doesn't have to wait until he releases something new and no one buys it to try and figure out what he did wrong. The consumer has a voice now that is louder than ever before in history.

Jason


Yes he did post to this thread. But I don't remember him apologizing to anyone or admitting that he "DID WRONG". I don't even remember him saying anything about the whole Stickman, Named, Misleading demo malarkey. In fact it sounds to me like hes standing up for his effect. No?



Voldemort,
I meant the second half of my above post as a hypothetical since it was discussing something he would release in the future. I thought you would understand that. IF I wasn't happy with what I bought I would return it (or sell it in the secondary market) IF it isn't what is advertised. I would also let the creator know and other people know. I have done this before.

If you already have the techniques by the SAME creator from two other purchases Wouldn't you be upset that he charged you $30 for the same thing you already own? He could have offered a shorter/ less expensive version of the effect for people who own the previous releases that are interested in learning a new routine. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that Identity is certainly worth $10-$15 dollars. Then again I'm a fairly advanced card worker and I learned nothing new by way of technique. I think this type of routine is better suited as a download video or a PDF. Actually it would be best in a set of notes possibly with Stickman and Named to give you the full progression. Now that would be worth $30!

I'm sure this thread has taught Richard something valuable. I hope you learned something too Voldemort. I know I did.


Do yourself a favor man and drop it. This has been discussed extensively and most of those posts removed. Its a dead subject.

I'm sure Richard did learn something. So did I. What I learned is that the little green monster grabs some people a little more tightly than others.

I'm sure Richard learned that 99% of the people who got Identity are completely happy with it.

As for the 1%... Well you can't please all of the people all of the time. Can you.


V.
"Flight from death"
Buy the WILD AT HEART e-book to help Rachael Columbini here: http://www.lybrary.com/wild-heart-p-76110.html
JTW
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Sorry Voldemort? Drop what? You brought me back into this by choosing to focus on my post. I think you should grow up a little, I mean that in the nicest way.

The discussion is over when people are done discussing it, not when YOU deem appropriate. Stop coming back to this thread if you're done discussing it.

And no you can't please all the people all the time.
Review King
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Consumers decide everything. I'm quite sure Identity is a retail success. As you can tell from Richard's classy post, he's very interested in and appreciates feedback as he is in this for the long haul.

I watched Identity, from beginning to end, again last night. Even though I perform Named, I'm still getting great value out of the new release. Maybe someone that has the Sanders dvd set doesn't feel that way. It's their money and they get to decide what value means to them.

I think the mini card workshops were worth the price alone. Perhaps an advanced card handler wouldn't feel that way. Considering that 'most' new releases are bought by newbies, hobbyists and "technique challenged" folks like me, Identity will appeal to a great many folks.

No matter how you feel, perform this effect for real folks that you don't know ( doesn't have to be a paid show ) and they will gasp.

If you don't have Identity and have been on the fence waiting for the one "golden" review that sways you, forget it and just get the dvd and learn it. You will have one of the most powerful card effects ever created.

The incongruous lines morphing into their actual name is a killer effect. It's so magical, they can't explain it with sleight of hand, or fast hands, or trick cards. They get the card and walk away with a souvenir and memory that will last them forever.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Joshua Barrett
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Most powerful card effects ever is a bit strong. any instant change of a 2 sided object can and will be explained, especially when it follows so much "handeling". just my opinion, but most powerful ever is pretty strong words with the hundreds of thousands of card tricks in existance. in any case richard is still the man =)
Review King
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Quote:
On 2009-07-09 10:40, Joshua Barrett wrote:
Most powerful card effects ever is a bit strong. any instant change of a 2 sided object can and will be explained, especially when it follows so much "handling". just my opinion, but most powerful ever is pretty strong words with the hundreds of thousands of card tricks in existence. in any case Richard is still the man =)


I said " You will have one of the most powerful card effects ever created ". I didn't say it was the most powerful. It might be for someone, but it would be debatable to say any one effect is THE most powerful.

Any instant change of a 2 sided object can and will be explained? You have performed this and had someone explain how you did it?

What card effect do you perform that gets stronger reactions than Identity gets?
I'd say any of the classics can, in the right hands, get incredible reactions, because they are so hard hitting.

But Identity, in my experience, has them rubbing the their name on he card over and over in disbelief. And we know from our own experience the power of our names. Anyone that has ever been out in public and has their name called out knows the feeling. A chemical reaction happens and changes how you feel.

I don't do the twirl change. I place the card face up in their hand and have them sandwich the card between their palms and shake it ( like making a martini ) and make the change that way. For me, I've found that to be stronger. Not sure why that is. Maybe because the card doesn't come back in contact with the deck, or maybe because it's now magic in their hands. Maybe a combination of reasons. Try it and see what you think.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Joshua Barrett
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Varations of unshuffled, justin millers x marks the spot, various items with tameriz mem deck, and a bunch other I don't have time to mention. frankly I think the ortiz trick where the name on the card jumps is a bit better (for me). I don't tend to use cards as a "big" closing effect execpt for those mentioned.

"Any instant change of a 2 sided object can and will be explained? You have performed this and had someone explain how you did it?"

No, but I tend to assume its possiable for a spec to have a logical thinking mind. Basiclly I perfer to assume such, instead of the "they will never notice/figure it out" approch.

anyway, that's just me. I'm strangely picky when it comes to card magic, As I have my own theorys about magic not shared my everyone.

I think advoiding the twirl changes is a very good idea. yours sounds like a much better method
Review King
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Joshua, I'm just chatting away and not picking on you. I think you know that. You're very smart and it's great to have this type of dialog as if we were in a real Café. Thanks for that.

Anything is explainable by anyone. And if that's the basis for picking the effects, than anything with a full gaffed deck like Justin Millers x marks the spot would be one of the worst choices to perform because any "logical thinking mind" might think so and would want to see the deck, which they can't.

Does that happen? No ( I love X Marks The Spot ). For the overwhelming majority of human beings, people like to be entertained and they like to think that amazing things are possible. They tend to not over process how something happened. Doesn't mean thought shouldn't go into picking effects. You can pick effects that you believe a logical mind couldn't or is least likely to discern the method. But...you'll also miss out on some amazing effects because of the worry "they'll figure it out".

mem deck work is hard hitting..but.... any logical mind can explain anything done with a mem deck. How? The cards are marked, you had the deck stacked and on and on.

You can't get away from the one person that you may come across that needs to explain things. Play to the smartest person in the room if that's the goal, but if they want to, they will offer any explanation that makes them feel good.

I think Chris Kenner's favorite magician, Cris Angel, summed it up best:

"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible."

He's so smart!

:rotf:
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Joshua Barrett
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That is true. It really comes down to the luxury of being able to buy someone else's work. This is definately a real option for performers (meaning it don't fall into the 99% crap that is put out ) everyone who looks at this trick or any other trick of quality is going to see it from a different persective, seeing different flaws/strengths. This is in fact what I like about the Café, not all strengths of a trick matter to me, the same with a lot of weakness people bring up. we are all jaded magicians anyway in one sense or another. I think the only real qualified person to write a book on magic theroy is a laymen, doubt it will ever happen. =D
magicpatoche
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I like the sandwich idea Chris. Less visual but very powerful nevertheless!!


Before I work on a new routine that isn't mine, I always ask my brother, mum or someone very close to watch a demo or the actual dvd's performance to see how they experience it. I find that sometimes I worry too much of how lay people might see a routine. Our knowledge can be our worst enemy. But when I see an effect like Identity and I think "wow", I know that's a winner.
Joshua Barrett
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What Id like to see is a 3 or 4 part change where the name is slowly formed. pipe dreams I suppose, aside from going overly mechanical.
davidpaul$
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Quote:
On 2009-07-09 12:10, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:


I think Chris Kenner's favorite magician, Cris Angel, summed it up best:

"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible."

He's so smart!

:rotf:


I think Saint Thomas Aquinas came up with that quote. circa 1225-1274
Chris Angel isn't that smart.
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
hanosek
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I'm with Joshua and JTW on this one...
Review King
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Quote:
On 2009-07-09 13:21, magicpatoche wrote:

I like the sandwich idea Chris. Less visual but very powerful nevertheless!!



Thanks. It does lose that great visual. But, I'm finding that having them shake the card between their palms has added something special to it.

I first shake the card and say "look, you can see the marks moving. Let's try this".
And then I place it face up ( since they see their drawing on the face, they have zero suspicions ) in their hand.

When they turn it over and see their name, I act VERY surprised. I say "Oh my GOD, does that spell what I think it does" sort of lines.

PLEASE, if you got Identity, perform it, because I think you will love the reactions.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Voldemort
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Quote:
On 2009-07-09 09:27, JTW wrote:


And no you can't please all the people all the time.


Obviously.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were not through rambling about a subject that seems to have run its course.

By all means, Continue.

If you don't wish me to respond to the fluff that you seem to feel the need to get off your chest, Please refrain from directing your posts toward me.


V.
"Flight from death"
Buy the WILD AT HEART e-book to help Rachael Columbini here: http://www.lybrary.com/wild-heart-p-76110.html
kenodad
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Chris,
I really like your idea. Good thinking.

For what it is worth, I really like Identity. Yes, it is a bit long-winded in explanation, but in order to appeal to a large group of magicians, he has to do some instruction (or reference where to learn some sleights). I think it is worth it. It is a great idea with a simple plot: random marks morph into a spectators name (either visually or, as Chris suggests, non-visually--in the spectators mind in that case). I favor the condensed version; stick with one effect (avoid the marks "jumping").

I guess I don't agree with Joshua's assessment that spectators will figure out a double sided event has happened. They may think that, but when you hand them the card, where will they go mentally? Rewind through the mechanics, moves and gaff? That is a lot of advanced thinking for a laymen. Many will want to look at the deck (let them after a palm); when they have done that, they should be flabergasted. I have not done the effect yet, but I have done magic enough to guess that this will be well received if performed correctly. I am working on some handling/patter modifications before presentation. I appreciate everyone's input.
John
PatrickGregoire
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My favourite Colour change is "In Lieu of Vernon's Push Through the Fist Flourish" A.K.A. the Twirl Change. From all the times that I've executed the change, nobody's ever figured it out. It is SUCH a VISUAL change.

Seeing how people are actually paying attention to Chris' alternate handling at the end, I'd like to repost what I posted on page 7. I haven't tried it out yet, but I'm CERTAIN that it would get the same impact as the original change, but it's way easier, uses psychology instead of sleight of hand and the card never has to go back to the deck, as with Chris' method. It can also happen at eye level without having to stick your arm out in an awkward position like with Identity's handling. You do have to own True Astonishments though. Here was my post:

Quote:
On 2009-06-23 18:00, PatrickGregoire wrote:

Any owners of True Astonishments think of applying the last change of Backlash 2 to Identity, instead of the Shake Change? Because of the routine, they see the marks travel from card to care and then land on their card. They will surely be CONVINCED that if there is anything on their card, it's the marks. So you just take their card and do the Backlash 2 change instead of the Shake Change. It cuts down on the moves at the end and you can immediately hand out the card after the change. Instantly reset as with the Shake Change. Keeping the powerful psychology behind the change in mind, it would be just as visual as the Shake Change.
PatrickGregoire
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The condensed version HAS the marks jumping kenodad. Ironically, you want Named. Named is just the marks changing into their name. The condensed version is the random marks vanish and appear on their card and then the marks change into their name.
kenodad
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I admit I have not read through all 12 pages of the postings here. I was referring to the middle part of Sanders' longer routine, where the marks jump to other cards. I think that is a bit much. I do like the vanish of the marks and reappearance in the middle of the deck to find the card. I guess the morph is sort of a kicker, but would be the most remembered part. I just discovered that Named is on Sanders' DVD. Pathetically, I have it, but haven't looked at it in forever. If it is the same effect, I will be irritated, but if Identity offers some improvement, I will be happy with my current purchase.
Review King
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Much of magic is a bit like riffing jazz tunes. You can do longer or shorter routines based on time constraints, performing situations, performing style, etc.

Identity is no different. The payoff is the marks morphing into their name. Anything you want to do or not do before that is up to you.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
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