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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
Much as I feel humbled by your superior understanding of entertainment, it really isn't relevant to my point (although I am intrigued to know how you could dress up 'mildly amusing'.
I don't care for country music. Not at all. In fact, I have a fairly strong dislike for it. It is very unlikely that I will be moved emotionally at a profound level by any performance of country music. I won't be entertained by it either. This is in no way a reflection on the authenticity of the country musicians art. If he knew I was going to be in the audience, and he wanted to attempt to 'move me' he could sell out a bit and layer in some dirty funk or hip-hop along with his banjo playing.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
That's why I said it should be about moving "your audience." This does not have to mean each physical person that is present in the literal sense. Not every person every where will be part of your audience. This is why there are different genres of every type of entertainment. I also did not say it was a requirement for entertainment to "move your audience." But... I do believe that defining artistic expression, entertainment, and profundity as mutually exclusive is highly restrictive to each.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
I really get the feeling that you are being sneaky with the interpretation of your own argument.
Peraljamjeff said: Quote:
That's why I said it should be about moving "your audience." Not every person every where will be part of your audience. This is why there are different genres of every type of entertainment. Sounds a lot like what I prefixed my initial post that you replied with. Quote:
Fact of the matter is, in the entertainment landscape, one has to be at least a little lucky to be able to pursue THEIR art and get paid a decent wage for it. By that I don't only mean lucky in opportunity, but also lucky enough that your personal artistic taste coincides with an audience big enough to support your required salary. Are we in agreement? Quote:
I also did not say it was a requirement for entertainment to "move your audience." But... I do believe that defining artistic expression, entertainment, and profundity as mutually exclusive is highly restrictive to each. Sneaky again? Jeff, you are a very naughty boy! You said: "entertainment means moving your audience emotionally on a profound level" and then went on to rubbish those that don't share this definition. On a slightly different subject - my artistic talents don't stop at mentalism. I consider myself quite a comedic artisan. I don't peruse my comedy on a professional level, but I've been known to make a few people smile. I guess you know this already - I mention it only because my comedy is an art I can pursue without financial pressure, purely for the sake of the comedy itself and it's ability to move others. I don't have to sell out... at all... well perhaps if I have particular need to make someone laugh, but other than that - I typically say and write things that I find funny - it can be a bit hit or miss if people get them. I have a few friends that 'get' nearly everything I come out with. They are my audience, and they are profoundly moved on an emotional level. Their entertainment is secondary to my art.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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MentalAlex New user 58 Posts |
I do not believe I have to "compromise" my art to be as entertaining as possible while doing it.
I do not design my art by learning what is entertaining, I figure out entertaining ways to present my art. Say I can have you think of a four digit number, and set a combination lock with it. I then look you in the eyes and count slowly from one to ten. I now know what number your thinking of. Should I: Just open the lock? Lock many finger rings on it, make a bunch of jokes about people not getting their rings back if I'm wrong? Or chain myself to a cinder block with it and jump in a lake? All of these can be strong mentalism, but I know from experience that the lake thing gets a MUCH larger reaction. I don't consider that not being true to my art. It's just good showmanship. |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
MentalAlex: Is sounds like you are defining your art as the methods.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Nash Inner circle Hong Kong ~ USA 1101 Posts |
We perform to entertain people, not for our own egoistic satisfaction.
Besides, being entertaining and true to one's art is not exclusive to each other at all.
I teach leaders the magic of curiosity and empathetic communication. keynote Speaker | Seattle magician
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MentalAlex New user 58 Posts |
Let me ask you something Davit.
What is the point? Why do you go up on stage to perform? The only good reason I can think of to perform mentalism is for the delight and entertainment of an audience. If you don't perform to entertain your audiences, why DO you perform? And don't say "for the love of the art", because that doesn't really mean anything. Of course you love the art. That's why we're mentalists, because we love the art. |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-06-03 00:26, Nash wrote: I create and what I create is performance art. Those who see it are a part of it. Never set out to entertain anyone but yourself. People will be interested in what you do if you can do that. Just my opinion of course. -Jim H.O.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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spellcrafter New user 6 Posts |
Jim, very interesting view. So then in your case, with the audience as part of your creation, would you judge part of the success of your performance by how well the audience fills their role in your creation? or possibly how the audience involvement directs the creation into a new direction unforeseen by both performer and audience?
I do agree with you that your enjoyment factors heavily in the process. After all, if you aren't having fun, then it is unlikely that anyone else will. And your enjoyment enhances that of the other participants. (symbiosis, anyone?) Thanks to all for the enlightenment. This discussion is really helping me identify my ultimate goal as a student/future artist-performer. |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-06-03 15:40, spellcrafter wrote: (IN PART) This was the very reason that I started this thread, to get people talking and to see what others thought. Despite most of what I wrote, I still don’t like mixing magic and mentalism, UNLESS you can do it seamlessly and together, by using magic methods (unknown to your spectators) to accomplish your routine. This is what I like to call edge of reality because if a magician is watching he will be fooled because of the mentalism methods mixed into the routines and the same can be said about the mentalist who is thrown off by the magic methods mixed into the presentation. I am not talking about BOX type mental magic, but rather sleight of hand along with the misdirection and BLOCKING used by the magician. It has been discussed about pleasing and giving your audience what YOU think that they may want. I wrote that to see if anyone would bite and offer their opinion on this topic. I am somewhat in both camps in regards to this subject. A part of me wants to give them an enjoyable roller coaster ride of entertainment of what I feel they will really enjoy and somewhat expect from me, while the other part tells me to take them on an experience into a world where I ALONE live. A world that PULLS them into a position where they can’t associate it with anything they have read, seen or experience before. By creating such a persona and transition between your presentations weaves your spectators INTO the experience of YOUR WORLD and this is what I am striving for ultimately. Ray Noble |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
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On 2009-06-03 15:40, spellcrafter wrote: Yep that's it. It is a differnt type of performance because I am not trying to be liked or accepted. I am different and people respond to that. But that is getting a little off topic I think. So we will leave that for another day. Best Wishes, Jim PS> I have a new forum were this sort of thing will be examined and explained in detail.
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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Moonlightshadow New user 94 Posts |
A very old discussion, but what it boils down to, I think, is :
it depends on who you are, who you play for and what you convey. One man's meat is another man's poison, als the old saying goes. Or - as the enigmatical mr. Maven once stated : "there's only one rule of showbusiness that can't be broken : that is : there are no rules of showbusiness that can't be broken". Still we keep on asking advice on material and presentation, while these are the very things that we - as performing artists - should have our own opinions on. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I perform magic-mentalism and received no problems.
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