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The great Gumbini
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Ok I received MINDPLAY today and have had a chance to work it out on practice only. It is a bit more complicated working through the instructions than it was for Up The Ante. There are also more things that you will need to remember in this routine (until it sinks in). However that is NOT to be misunderstood as a negative slant against this effect. The set up is minimal and although I'll have to see how to go about it I believe you could probably do a back to back routine using Up The Ante first then MINDPLAY. I did a run through using MINDPLAY with me as the spectators and sure enough it worked. The idea behind it is clean and effective. I look forward to trying this out in public. I will practice a bit more however to make sure I have it down pat. As a note I agree that both effects are very different and each has unique ideas that are worth knowing.

Overall I am very well pleased with both of these effects and have zero buyers remorse. I wish both parties the absolute best and congratulate them both on a job well done.


Good magic to all,


Eric
The great Gumbini
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BTW I'd also like to say that both Martyn Smith and Christopher Williams will actually answer your email inquiries and are there to make sure you get the full advantage from their work. These are two fine effects from two fine gentlemen.


Good magic to all,


Eric
Christopher Williams
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Many thanks Eric for your kind words, and I am glad you like MindPlay. Yes there is a little to remember, though no memorization is needed, however, it is self working, the set up is simple and can be done in front of the spectator easily making it FASDIU. As soon as you have the steps down, it is easy. I guess it is easy for me to say, as I have been performing it for years now. I look forward to hearing how it plays for you in real performance.

Best Wishes

Chris

http://www.magicman13.co.uk
www.magicman13.co.uk

Copies of the limited edition 'MindPlay' still available
The great Gumbini
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Well the wait is over! I performed it today. I thought it would take longer to "get it down" but running through it like 5 times actually did the trick (no pun intended). The reaction was very good. The kicker ending is just that a KICKER! I personally will be working overtime to bring Mindplay and Up The Ante together in my Casino style routine. For me this is a dream come true.


Good magic to all,


Eric
The great Gumbini
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BTW I HIGHLY recommend both of these routines and I feel they are ideas that will actually be used. I only wish I could think up things like this. But like I always say "a man must know his own limitations."


Good magic to all,


Eric
Roger Kelly
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Well, as I began the thread, I only feel it fitting to comment now after all has been revealed.

I'm delighted with "Up the Ante" and will use it.

Not delighted at all with MindPlay. I won't use it. I'll put my neck on the block and say I think the price is excessive for what it is and in my view, not FASDIU* as quoted. It most certainly cannot be performed with a borrowed deck - as I alluded to in my initial post. Anyone want a bargain copy, you know where it will be.

*I suppose this depends on your own interpreation of FASDIU. My own interpretation is, deck in use and unprepared.
JanForster
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Yes, "Up the Ante" is very nice indeed. It uses something we all (should) know, but what a good idea to build such a routine. Jan
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Christopher Williams
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Quote:
On 2009-06-05 06:13, Roger Kelly wrote:
Well, as I began the thread, I only feel it fitting to comment now after all has been revealed.

I'm delighted with "Up the Ante" and will use it.

Not delighted at all with MindPlay. I won't use it. I'll put my neck on the block and say I think the price is excessive for what it is and in my view, not FASDIU* as quoted. It most certainly cannot be performed with a borrowed deck - as I alluded to in my initial post. Anyone want a bargain copy, you know where it will be.

*I suppose this depends on your own interpreation of FASDIU. My own interpretation is, deck in use and unprepared.


Ouch! Sorry to hear you think that. I had written a long post to justify the price, but I have deleted it and don't think I should have to. I can understand some not being too happy with the price, but everyone is different. I have certainly paid more for an item I have never used. It is only when you produce creations you really understand their true cost, and in this project, I have.

As for the FASDIU claim, I stand by that. There are instructions from myself, as well as John Bannon on how to perform this on the fly. However, it is not often I perform with a borrowed deck. There are more ideas for MindPlay since its original creation a couple years ago now, including more work on performing with a borrowed deck, but as I released this as a professional routine of mine, I don't usually turn up at a gig without my own cards. However, I have performed this to Magicians with their own deck, including to a room full at Dorchester and they didn't spot a thing.

As I said Roger, I am sorry you are not happy, feel free to email me or PM me should you want to discuss this further.

All the best

Chris
www.magicman13.co.uk

Copies of the limited edition 'MindPlay' still available
The great Gumbini
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Hi Roger,

When I saw your post I was just getting ready to thank you for starting this thread since this was where I first learned of these effects. But then I read what you wrote and felt bad that this didn't work for you. I have to say at first I was not sure either. But the more I worked with it the more I started to like it. You see I love any casino style magic---cards, chips, roulette wheel etc. so for me this was right down my ally. However, as with all of my magic it has to pass the biggest test of all, my spectators. So I tried it and I have to say it got good reactions. Now I will say that I did the two effects together. Up The Ante first then Mindplay. I have a fairly simple method of getting the cards I need to the top using patter as well as simple card manipulation.

Roger if I may ask did you actually show this to someone or are you just not happy with it and have not performed it yet? The reason I ask is I believe I had similar feelings at first---but then I spent about 3 hours maybe 4 working this out and it just seemed to fall into place for me. I then went through about 5 actual mock performances and felt comfortable enough to try it. After I saw how people reacted I knew I had something I'd work with.


But what I love about The Café is people are different and some agree on some things and some disagree. But I personally want to thank you for your thread that lead me to these 2 effects. I will always be grateful to you for that.

Thank you my friend,


Good magic to all,


Eric
Christopher Williams
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Quote:
On 2009-06-05 06:13, Roger Kelly wrote:

*I suppose this depends on your own interpreation of FASDIU. My own interpretation is, deck in use and unprepared.


Apologies, I didn't answer this! As I said, when I perform this, I usually have my own cards, and as the instructions say, there is a very tiny and unoticable preparation to a couple cards. However, this isn't needed, and there is a way to do this effect without marking preparing a couple cards, although the preparation can be done in seconds.

As for FASDIU, in my opinion, it means an effect I can perform from a deck that has been shuffled, and still perform an effect without having to turn away and set anything up, much like in the FASDIU books by Paul Cummins. If I can cull a couple cards after it has been shuffled, then it is FASDIU for me. When I perform this, it is a closer, and I don't bring out another deck, I use the same one I have been performing the rest of my set with, so that to me personally, made this FASDIU. Apologies if you feel I have misled you, I have always tried to be open and honest about what is involved with my effects
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Roger Kelly
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Eric makes some valid points in his post above. However, without wishing to labour the issue or get into a pointless arguement with Christopher Williams I should make it clear that I read through MindPlay thoroughly but immediately decided that it was not for me. But I do accept that some magicians will make good use of it as it is, without doubt, a good effect in the right hands. And if Eric has made good use of it as a result of my raising the initial post, and Chris has sold two more copies, then everyone's a winner - er, except me. But, no big deal. It isn't the first time I've made a mistake and it won't be the last I'm sure!

I respect Christopher's interpretation of FASDIU but, sadly, in my opinion, it is way off the mark! I virtually stipulated in my initial post 'borrowed' deck and, again, with due respect to Christopher's comments, it simply cannot be performed (as per the instructions) with a deck 'just' handed to you and 'on the fly.' Regardless of one's technical ability and patter style, it absolutely and irrefuteably requires preparation! Admittedly, small preparation, but preparation nonetheless.

Paul Cummins tells us that the "S" in FASDIU stands for shuffled. My interpretation of that is that the very most recent thing to happen to the deck was that is was shuffled, or, at the very least, an acceptance by the spectator/audience that the deck is thoroughly mixed and in use without any preparedness of any kind! This is simply NOT the case for MindPlay as it requires a set up! Not only that, but it also requires that something is done to the cards for goodness sake!

The creator misled me to make a quick £25 (And I'm desperately trying not to even broach the issue of value here!) So what? Here's what - he won't do it again and that £25 is another £25 lost as I shall be giving mine to someone whom I know wants a copy.

Quote:
Could I ask anyone who is performing them if any 'set up' is required or can they be launched from a (borrowed) deck in use?


Quote:
I have MindPlay and am performing it regularly, so can inform you that it can be done FASDIU.


My backside it can!
Christopher Williams
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Quote:
On 2009-06-06 05:50, Roger Kelly wrote:
Eric makes some valid points in his post above. However, without wishing to labour the issue or get into a pointless arguement with Christopher Williams I should make it clear that I read through MindPlay thoroughly but immediately decided that it was not for me. But I do accept that some magicians will make good use of it as it is, without doubt, a good effect in the right hands. And if Eric has made good use of it as a result of my raising the initial post, and Chris has sold two more copies, then everyone's a winner - er, except me. But, no big deal. It isn't the first time I've made a mistake and it won't be the last I'm sure!

I respect Christopher's interpretation of FASDIU but, sadly, in my opinion, it is way off the mark! I virtually stipulated in my initial post 'borrowed' deck and, again, with due respect to Christopher's comments, it simply cannot be performed (as per the instructions) with a deck 'just' handed to you and 'on the fly.' Regardless of one's technical ability and patter style, it absolutely and irrefuteably requires preparation! Admittedly, small preparation, but preparation nonetheless.

Paul Cummins tells us that the "S" in FASDIU stands for shuffled. My interpretation of that is that the very most recent thing to happen to the deck was that is was shuffled, or, at the very least, an acceptance by the spectator/audience that the deck is thoroughly mixed and in use without any preparedness of any kind! This is simply NOT the case for MindPlay as it requires a set up! Not only that, but it also requires that something is done to the cards for goodness sake!

The creator misled me to make a quick £25 (And I'm desperately trying not to even broach the issue of value here!) So what? Here's what - he won't do it again and that £25 is another £25 lost as I shall be giving mine to someone whom I know wants a copy.

Quote:
Could I ask anyone who is performing them if any 'set up' is required or can they be launched from a (borrowed) deck in use?


Quote:
I have MindPlay and am performing it regularly, so can inform you that it can be done FASDIU.


My backside it can!


Roger, I don't intend to argue over this point, as I am sure you don't either. However, should we meet, and you want me to perform this with a deck just handled to me, I will do so. Yes the main routine done with my cards, requires a very tiny preparation to the cards that can be done in seconds, however, it can be done without this. Please remember the instructions were wrote around 15-18 months ago now, and since, I have continued, through performing it, to enhance the routine. If you honestly feel I have misled you, I will refund you your money back. It is never my intentions to mislead anyone, and am actually hurt and upset that you feel this is what I have done here. I have sold just less than 150 copies of this book, and I have kept a certain amount of it for lectures etc, and you are one of the very few to have issues with it or myself, but not a single product or creator can be liked.
That is why I will do all I can to rectify this issue.

Once again, deepest apologies if you feel I have misled you, and I will refund you and you can keep MindPlay even just to sell it on if you still decide this is what you would like to do. Please let me know

Thanks

Chris
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Roger Kelly
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Thanks Chris. There is no need for an argument. I've said my piece and I stand by it and we'll just have to agree to disagree. The 'prep' you refer to, I accept, can be achieved by other means. The prep I'm talking about is what is required to get going with this effect and in my book, aint fasdiu.And that's what irked me because that is exactly the clarification I sought in the first place. I also accept that you can't disclose too much detail but had I known in advance that it requires a set-up, (I even used those words!) I would not have made the purchase, because this trick, no matter how good it is, does not meet my requirements or suit my performance style. That is a fact.

There is absolutely no need for you to feel hurt over this. I'm simply expressing MY opinion. You have yours and you are rightly entitled to it. But our differences of opinion are so far apart they are off the scale! Don't forget, I'm not knocking the product. It is what it is and I'm sure its very good. But sadly, I don't like it purely for the reasons explained. I cant help but feel misled and I dare say it was not your intention to do so. No big deal. I'm just disappointed in the same way that I have been, like so many of us, in the past, when 'suckered' into purhcasing an over-hyped load of old twaddle! (That's NOT to say that is the case here of course!)

I admire your gesture on a public forum to rectify at whatever cost. That certainly is an excellent example of customer relations. I'm not overly concerned about the £25. After all I have now learned the secret. It is a well produced document and I'm more than happy to just donate it to someone who can do it justice.

Your apology is more than adequate recompense and is gratefully accepted. It takes balls to do that in public.

Chris, despite our best intentions, no-one is ever going to please everyone all the time.

Thank you for coming on here with a good attitude about it. There are plenty of others out there who could learn from your example.

All the best.

Roger
JanForster
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Gentlemen, it's obvious that you are both British... Jan
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The great Gumbini
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Gentlemen indeed. The way it should be.


Good magic to all,


Eric
captainsmiffy
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New info and thoughts on Up The Ante available on the private forum! Thanks for sharing them with us, Lumberjohn.
Have you tried 'Up The Ante' yet?? The ultimate gambling demo....a self-working wonder! See the reviews here on the cafe.
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