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lunatik
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Thanks Josh for having an open mind about magic. Take what you get here on the Café for what it's worth. You'll get great ideas and also some bad, but at least it will make you think about what you do and why. Keep the receptiveness that you have right now for your entire career and you'll do awesome Smile
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
joshsmagic
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Quote:
On 2009-06-04 18:43, AlienSpaceBat wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-06-03 18:21, joshsmagic wrote:
...
And just for Kamm's defense, by posting his videos up on youtube doesn't mean he's asking for advice or 'constructive criticism, this would be people saying that what he is doing is wrong and that would be 'destructive' criticism.


What exactly IS he asking for then ??? Only comments that say how brilliant the performance is ? If that is so then YouTube postings with comments enabled is the wrong way to go.

I actually like JK's ACR a great deal, but not 100%. Is that opinion worthless ?


Who says he is asking for anything. Does he need to ask for something? People leaving comments is one thing, but handing out advice is different...they are comments, not advice.

Do you have a link for JK's ACR, I'm not sure if I've seen it?
joshsmagic
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Quote:
On 2009-06-04 18:43, AlienSpaceBat wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-06-03 18:21, joshsmagic wrote:
...
And just for Kamm's defense, by posting his videos up on youtube doesn't mean he's asking for advice or 'constructive criticism, this would be people saying that what he is doing is wrong and that would be 'destructive' criticism.


What exactly IS he asking for then ??? Only comments that say how brilliant the performance is ? If that is so then YouTube postings with comments enabled is the wrong way to go.

I actually like JK's ACR a great deal, but not 100%. Is that opinion worthless ?


In response to this quote, Jonathan Kamm wanted me to post this response directly from him:

Post this response and let them know its from me:

I post on YouTube to inspire others. When I am looking for help or advice I ask the right people. 99% of the negative comments on my videos come from anonymous haters and yes the opinions of anonymous haters are worthless. The people whose opinions I respect contact me privately if they have a suggestion about one of my videos. This is how professionals act. To try to post a negative comment on one of my videos publicly shows a lack of respect. It shows that your motivation is to hurt me not help me. Those comments are deleted.

In life there are only 2 times when criticism is appropriate.

1.When someone asks you for advice
2. When you are an authority figure to that person (teacher, parent, coach, boss ...ect.)

Any other time criticism is just rude and out of line and meant to harm that individual.
This is destructive criticism.

I listen to everyone. But if you can not back up what you say then don't expect me to follow your advice. If you want people to listen to your advice then that position of authority is something you must earn my friend.

,Jonathan Kamm
joshsmagic
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JK's acr anyone?
bigchuck
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I like it.
"The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact
mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. - Frank Zappa"
joshsmagic
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Quote:
On 2009-06-05 13:38, bigchuck wrote:
I like it.

do you have a link
Cain
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Quote:
On 2009-06-04 22:02, joshsmagic wrote:
2. When you are an authority figure to that person (teacher, parent, coach, boss ...ect.)


Et cetera is abbreviated "etc." Tell Jonathan I do not mind offering this correction publicly because I teach spelling to children with learning disabilities.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
pearljamjeff
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Just do a search. It's the first on there.

Jon's idea about when criticism is appropriate is complete hack, arrogant, and unfounded. Where do those two limitations even COME FROM? His own little world? Shutting out opinions that don't jive with his own by placing himself on a level where no one can touch him is heavily influenced by third-grader mentality. He, himself, does not have the "proof" that he requires to be an authority. He has a popular video on youtube. Whoop-dee-flipping-do. You don't have to be popular or have a million people standing behind you for an idea to be correct. You can have something called "logic." But when intelligence is lacking, logic suffers, and some choose to make their own rules, with no base in reality.

If said performer spent more time working on his personality (you know, actually being likable and stuff...) instead of putting up a fight every time someone doesn't like something of his... it would actually solve two problems at once! Novel, huh?
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
AlienSpaceBat
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Quote:
On 2009-06-04 22:02, joshsmagic wrote:

[JK said]
...

In life there are only 2 times when criticism is appropriate.

1.When someone asks you for advice
2. When you are an authority figure to that person (teacher, parent, coach, boss ...ect.)

Any other time criticism is just rude and out of line and meant to harm that individual.
This is destructive criticism.

I listen to everyone. But if you can not back up what you say then don't expect me to follow your advice. If you want people to listen to your advice then that position of authority is something you must earn my friend.

,Jonathan Kamm


And there we have the measure of it.

Better card skills than me without doubt, so I'll make no further observation on that.

The ability to take criticism and suggestion is the mark of an adult, and part of striving for continuing improvement. All the above shows a sad lack of humility and open-mindedness, in my opinion, to which I most certainly AM entitled.

My advice to you Josh, is to learn card handling from Mr Kamm, but look elsewhere for a role model ...

IMHO, of course.
truckbonner555
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I really liked the routine. The only sleight that was sloppy was the top palm at the end. You drew a lot of attention to the hands and it was not natural looking. I suggest learning a very natural one hand or two hand top palm.
-Alex
Mark Ennis
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Quote:
On 2009-06-01 02:19, Voldemort wrote:
I loved the routine!!

But just a word about the length. It may be a little long for some peoples tastes. The ACR is something that I've seen debated on many fourms and I'm sure that this fourm is no exeption. Some people think that four phases is enough. Some think ten. Darwin Ortiz claims that the correct number of phases is six. It all tends to be very personal...

...But of course its all a matter of opinion and preference. As long as it doesn't get dull and each revelation seems more impossible than the last... I really don't see the difference. If your spectators are entertained, that's what matters. Keep doing what works for you.



Actually Darwin's claim that the correct number of phases being 6 is tongue-in-cheek since Darwin's routine is 6 phases. I think he would agree with you that the length of the routine or number of phases depends on the performers ability to sustain the interest of the audience and that each phase becomes increasingly more impossible and convincing.
ME
joshsmagic
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Quote:
On 2009-06-06 09:51, Mark Ennis wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-06-01 02:19, Voldemort wrote:
I loved the routine!!

But just a word about the length. It may be a little long for some peoples tastes. The ACR is something that I've seen debated on many fourms and I'm sure that this fourm is no exeption. Some people think that four phases is enough. Some think ten. Darwin Ortiz claims that the correct number of phases is six. It all tends to be very personal...

...But of course its all a matter of opinion and preference. As long as it doesn't get dull and each revelation seems more impossible than the last... I really don't see the difference. If your spectators are entertained, that's what matters. Keep doing what works for you.



Actually Darwin's claim that the correct number of phases being 6 is tongue-in-cheek since Darwin's routine is 6 phases. I think he would agree with you that the length of the routine or number of phases depends on the performers ability to sustain the interest of the audience and that each phase becomes increasingly more impossible and convincing.


I agree, and that's what I'm trying to do...is have a nice flow through the routine that each phase gets more impossible then the next.

One thing I try to mess around with for this routine is having good transitions from each phase to the next. Any suggestions for the transitions?
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2009-06-06 12:29, joshsmagic wrote:
I agree, and that's what I'm trying to do...is have a nice flow through the routine that each phase gets more impossible then the next.


In this case, then, in my opinion you'll want to reevaluate the structure of the routine. First, one thing your current routine lacks is conviction that the face-down card that's seen sticking out in the middle of the deck is their card. In my experience after a while people do not trust that this card, that's supposed to be their card, is actually their card. In your case, it's frequently not, and that's a potential weakness.

Second, shuffling in the middle of an ACR routine makes no sense. The effect is that the card is jumping to the top of the deck. As such, for the effect to truly register, they need to have a sense of where the card is both before the effect happens and after the effect happens. If you wanted to sell the card as lost in order to add that dimension to it, I think you'll need to offer the deck out for shuffling -- the routine to that point is sufficient proof that you'll got excellent control over the cards, and that a shuffle means little.

Third, making each phase seem more impossible than the next usually means doing the same basic effect over and over again, not hitting them with new revelations (such as card-to-mouth or a colour-change). These may be impressive revelations, but they don't necessarily add to an overall feeling of increasing impossibility in the ACR effect itself. If instead you're hoping to do something akin to a card flurry, that's a different story.

Fourth, well, as others said, work on technique. Assume that the more you fool them with an effect, the harder they'll look, so get rid of every tell you can.

Quote:
One thing I try to mess around with for this routine is having good transitions from each phase to the next. Any suggestions for the transitions?


Depending upon how much interaction there is with an audience, I think flow is overrated. If you're performing for a group of people and you want to keep things humming along, then that's one thing, but if the ACR has one strength over practically every other plot in magic, is that it's got the potential to build complete conviction in the effect. Through interaction with your audience -- and through practice with that interaction -- you can actually glean from them what would make the next phase more impressive, and respond accordingly.

Just my two cents on all the above.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
joshsmagic
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Thanks a lot. That really helps out. I've heard from others that the shuffling in an acr doesn't make much sense, but as you know, its me demonstrating that the card is lost, whether a layman shuffles or I shuffle, lay audiences see the card being mixed in the deck, and then after that I show them the top three cards to reveal it isn't NEAR the top. and then I do a color change:/, people have been skeptic about this too. I think I may leave out the cool color changes for other effects and focus on the cleanliness of the card rising to the top everytime Smile

Thanks,
Josh
Ben Train
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Josh,

I too wanted to keep the routine "pure" and cut out other, what I believed to be distracting, elements like color changes and vanishes.

Truth is though, after looking at the dozen or so versions I like best, it's the ones that have some sort of variety that I like best.

I know I promised you a phone call and I haven't forgotten. It's just I'm worried about the long distance charges if we talk for an hour or so while I'm in the states and roaming/long distance charges apply (we're talking a $100 phone call right now!).

Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what!
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2009-06-06 13:12, joshsmagic wrote:
Thanks a lot. That really helps out. I've heard from others that the shuffling in an acr doesn't make much sense, but as you know, its me demonstrating that the card is lost, whether a layman shuffles or I shuffle, lay audiences see the card being mixed in the deck, and then after that I show them the top three cards to reveal it isn't NEAR the top. and then I do a color change:/, people have been skeptic about this too. I think I may leave out the cool color changes for other effects and focus on the cleanliness of the card rising to the top everytime Smile

Thanks,
Josh


Showing after a shuffle that the card isn't on top, or next to the top, or third from the top, and then showing it's risen isn't a terrible phase or anything, but it should be moved earlier. After the revelation of that effect, the effect is that the card appeared on top from "somewhere", and if you want to make sure that the audience believes that you're not faking not knowing where that "somewhere" is, you ought to hand the deck out for shuffling. Even so, though, the strength of the ACR for most people is that the card appears on top when they're so ****ing sure it's in the middle (sometimes if it's done well they'll express that verbatim). Shuffling confuses that effect.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
joshsmagic
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I concur, thank you so much for your help...continue to stay in touch...

Josh
joshsmagic
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Quote:
On 2009-06-06 13:31, Ben Train wrote:
Josh,

I too wanted to keep the routine "pure" and cut out other, what I believed to be distracting, elements like color changes and vanishes.

Truth is though, after looking at the dozen or so versions I like best, it's the ones that have some sort of variety that I like best.

I know I promised you a phone call and I haven't forgotten. It's just I'm worried about the long distance charges if we talk for an hour or so while I'm in the states and roaming/long distance charges apply (we're talking a $100 phone call right now!).

Ben


I completely understand, maybe when you get back is a better time to talk from our home phones Smile. Have fun at your conventions. I appreciate the compliment.
joshsmagic
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Any suggestions for the first intro to the routine?
Lawrence O
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Do you mean patter? or move?
If move, the choice is enormous
If patter, the one I use to get the people emotionally involved is "Have you already been in a position where you were on top and everybody tried to drag you back down into the crowd?"
Believe me it's hell of a hook up especially if you made them sign the Ambitious Card which now represents them.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
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