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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Ditching (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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brokin6
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I was making an assessment of the routine. Since I am primarily a performer with cards I had no choice but to look at a coins routine with spectators eyes. I am always conscious of where a routine goes and how it is framed and therein is where I offered advice. To me, it did not seem fluid and it was only after watching it the second time that I attempted to analyze why. I hope it was taken as advice as that's how it was meant. I meet weekly with a group of very talented magicians and am blessed to have them do the same for my work. As far as video, I have no need for it. The only times I've filmed myself is to work on my angles while working on table faro's and false shuffles. No promo material has ever been required of me so I guess I have never thought of it. Sorry
Why does coin magic make my head hurt!?!
pearljamjeff
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Like I said Brokin, I do appreciate your input. I just, quite simply, don't understand where you are coming from, mostly because you didn't explain yourself very well.

It felt as if you were attempting to position yourself as a master coin worker by your comments, and so I was curious to see video of you demonstrating your skill. If that's not the case, I understand. It's much easier to criticize than to do...

I am trying to be conscious of the same things you say that you are... and while you say that it seems "jerky" and to slow down the ditches or speed up the palms... I really don't have much of an idea of what you mean. It's just not specific enough.

I know you said you had to watch it twice to figure out what you didn't like about it... but remember, in a live situation, a lay person only watches it once. That said, I still wouldn't want a lay person to see the routine and feel it looked awkward. But so far, working the routine for laymen has prove wonderful!

God (and most here) knows I love criticism because its the only way to get better. It just seemed that your criticism was not intended to be productive, but merely condescending in nature...

Do you really feel that you don't need to share your material with us? You're the best already and need no input, aside from the few magicians you show your work to? They must be the best of the best, and that's awesome if they are! I wish they could give me some (useful) input!
Jeff Travilla - Author of "The Extractor." I work in advertising and marketing now. If you are a professional worker and need marketing help, feel free to contact my company. JCM Media Group.
brokin6
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Ok well I don't need to stand for this. I told you my view of what I saw and that's it. I WAS trying to help and I SPECIFICALLY said it was too jerky and I don't need to be a coin expert to say so. It was given as constructive criticism and if it goes over with laymen then that's all you need right? But now I have to post a video to prove myself? I don't think so. Some of the people I sit with and have sat with are the very same people you have on your shelf if you must know and I take criticism as a challenge I don't challenge the criticizer.
Again, to be specific. Producing a coin slowly then ditching it quickly just doesn't make sense but whatever. If they pay to see that then cash your check and smile because apparently that's all the validation you need. Other than that either take my viewpoint or don't. Don't try to be a big man and throw down a gauntlet because in the end its only magic and not a cure for cancer.
Why does coin magic make my head hurt!?!
ralphs007
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Quote:
On 2009-07-16 01:06, pearljamjeff wrote:
Here's a video with a few fun ditches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHMHL15P9dY

The first is a jacketless topit. I ensure a wide "pocket" by unbuttoning the bottom button and taping an extra button to the outside, to make everything look normal.

The second is an age-old pants cuff ditch. This takes considerable "aim" when wearing jeans! Dress pants are nice because it just slides right in.

The third is an application of the breast pocket ditch that I've never seen before.

Enjoy!

Very Nice !
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles
Sammy J.
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Brokin6, your last post and all your posts sound like sarcasm. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there like pearljamjeff did. I know I haven't had the guts. Have you? Sangita, your posts are way out of line. Are you trying to be a comedian? Maybe you are just trying to have fun. Please use discretion.
We are here to support each other. If you have legitimate critisism, either post it with dignity, or PM it please.
Thanks,
Sammy
Sammy J. Teague
pearljamjeff
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I wasn't trying to cause an "issue" here! Honestly, I can take criticism better than most, but I worked VERY hard on the timing of this routine, and that was the issue that was criticized... so I just wanted some clarity. By all means, I have criticized my fair share of posted videos here, but I always either post or PM the magician here and try to give specific advice to overcome the issues that I have noticed.

For example, in the card section, there's a video where someone's top palm was apparent, because the signature on the back of the card disappeared after it was palmed. I suggested turning the deck face up and copping off the card before tabling the deck. I thought this suggestion through and made sure to at least attempt to provide a solution before being critical.

Can you see how it would be frustrating, however, for someone to say that something looks bad (enough so to say "WOW"), and then provide no advice for a solution? This is why I was annoyed, not because of the criticism itself. It's great that he's hung out with some famous magicians. I worked at a record label for a summer and met some cool famous people too. I bet you have some of their records! Do we really need to pseudo-name drop?? Seems unnecessary.

Anyway, it was just a video to show some creative ditching. I've only been working with coins for about two months, and it was my first attempt at a routine. I have no delusions that it's perfect.
Jeff Travilla - Author of "The Extractor." I work in advertising and marketing now. If you are a professional worker and need marketing help, feel free to contact my company. JCM Media Group.
funsway
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Quote:
On 2009-07-16 01:06, pearljamjeff wrote:
Here's a video with a few fun ditches:

Enjoy!


I thought it was very clear that you were simply demonstrating some moves and sleights -- with no real attempt at routining at all. Since that was the subject of the thread I appreciated the demonstration, and your supplied descriptions limired by the 'no show' nature of this forum.

Therefore, IMHO all criticism of your 'routine' are out of place ...

and lack of respect, or getting one's Devil's Hank in a wad is never appropriate.

Internet communications is an artificial substitute for one-on-one interpersonal communciation and should be considered as limited and flawed from the outset. Pick out what works and ignore the rest, but always pretend that the posting of another has value and is 'well met' no matter how it sounds. Sheesh, what are you'all going to do with a heckler in an audience?

However, any assumption on your part that a person has to be an accomplished or expert performer in order to provide sage advice is also out of place. A video is an artificial glimpse at a live performance also, and is hardly representative of much beyond the ability to perform in front of a camera. What next -- meeting a significant other by watching a contrived video of their 'performance'?

So, I appreciate your posting of your demonstration of Ditching methods. Now, work on a routine in which we do not know ditching is occuring at all, and try again. I won't need a video -- a written description of your planned effects will do just fine -- including overheard comments from a live audience.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
J-Mac
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Way late to the game here but since new posts were kinda slow I was reading through some older ones. Love the last ditch! I have seen that done by one other magish here (Timmy, you know who you are!) And it is diabolical!

All in all a very nice video.

Thanks!

Jim
PetePennekett
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Quote:
On 2009-07-15 01:44, ropeadope wrote:
I`ve always liked the idea of getting rid of coins, or most anything else, by doing the old juggling gag.While standing, bring your arm up, cock it back behind your ear, similar to a catcher`s peg, and balance the coins/objects (gim or ungim) on the bottomside of your forearm at the elbow. Swiftly bring your arm down catching coins/objects in midair in your cupped hand.Show that you caught them succesfully. After a couple of times do same thing but let the momentum of your swing bring your hand briefly behind your back and toss the coin/ object into your other hand behind your back.Bring hand that is supposed to contain objects back up and showing Bam! their gone! Meanwhile ditching on the other side away from your body leaning diagonally forward & over, as Irfaan suggested in an earlier post.


David Roth does something similar to this on one of his VHS releases, except he ditches the coins in his breast pocket. I think it's on the 4th Expert Coin Magic release, someone may be able to correct me on that. Plays very well for pub crowds.

~ Pete.
Bambu
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Quote:
On 2009-07-15 01:10, Sammy J. wrote:
I built a magnetic holdout for my rear pocket for my 3CM routine. I actually use three magnets in a Starbucks breath mint container. Something about the polarity of the three magnets makes the 3CM rest in the middle of them. I use this holdout because it insures that on the initial production and the last ditch, my 3CM is safely secured. It works great!
Sammy


I really liked the idea of the magnetic holdout using the mint container, thank you for sharing.
Dougini
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Quote:
On 2009-06-09 07:20, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
There is a whole section on the New York Coin Magic Seminar DVD's (volume 4), as well as several tricks, that use the concept of "matting", to ditch coins.


This is most likely one of the best kept secrets in coin magic! Guys, if you haven't already, ya might want to grab a copy of Vol. 4! Or...maybe not, as I'd love to have this one to myself! LOL!

Doug
PetePennekett
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RE: My last post it appears that the elbow catch/ditch was on Ultimate Coin Magic vol. 4.

~ Pete.
Dougini
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Thanks Pete! That series, David Roth's Ultimate Coin Magic (Vol's 1-4), is a must-have for Roth fans! The New York Coin Magic Seminar DVD's include not only Roth, but Rubinstein, Gallo and (for a brief time) Latta. I really need to acquire the Roth series, though. UCM is Roth's best!
PetePennekett
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UCM has some really nice stuff in it, and particularly some great techniques and tips that (it seems to me) seem to have gotten a bit lost - A quick example being the 'swivel pivot' flourish which I don't think I've seen anyone do, ever. Definitely worth a go if you can find somewhere that still stocks it.

I've recently bought NYCMS vols 11-13 and they are really superb. There's a great range of difficulties - Mike Gallo shows a really nice shell coins across routine in the spectators hands which doesn't require CP, and on the other end of the spectrum Michael Rubinstein has some really nice routines using stealth & nowhere palms - and some absolute gold in the extras. I'll definitely be buying the rest of the series when I've got the money.

~ Pete.
Agaton
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I used to ditch on my back pocket. Of course this is in a very close environment when the hand where the coin "should be" is extended over the person to blow on it. Half of my body turned and other hand is out frame. Now I use a magnetic holdout on my backpocket. It's easier and a lot more faster.
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