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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » For the record » » Inventer of the move for impromptu card to wallet (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

georgecoolla
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Hi, I learned this sometime ago and I just can't remembered where I learned it. Basically the move is the signed card is being gambler copped and the wallet is put on top of the hand that cops the card concealing the card, and you take out the money or the content in the wallet with the card underneath. And you count the bills one by one, each time putting it to the bottom of the bill stack until you see the card. Does anyone know the earliest credits or the source of the inventer?
Bill Palmer
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This may be one of Daryl's moves. He used to work out three ways of doing every trick. One was for standup. One was for strolling. The other was for use on television.

Or this could be one of Ricky Jay's moves.

If you do one of Ricky Jay's moves, I think you are supposed to accompany it with a lecture on the history of magic, playing cards, sleight of hand or wallets. Smile
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
georgecoolla
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Thanks Bill, I did research again these days, I heard someone said this is from Joshua Jay. maybe on the magazine, and too bad I don't have enough Genii and Magic to find out Smile does anyone else know about this?
Bill Palmer
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I'm sure this goes back before Joshua Jay was doing magic.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
georgecoolla
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I believe the move goes way back, but I think when I learned this, this method was used to produce a signed card from spectator's wallet. So I'm just wondering, if I've created a trick that uses this method (with variation), and I want to write up a manuscript, who should I give the credit to? Or all I can say is, this move goes way back, and I'm not really sure who's the first one start to doing this. I would like to give the invented credit, but there are just too many good books and resources out there, and there's no way I can finish reading all of them in my life....but I just don't have enough time. Can someone give me some advice on this??

Bill, again, thanks for your reply!!!
Bill Palmer
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You have to realize that "way back" is a lot further back than when Joshua Jay was born.

The best advice would be to ask a lot of different people on a lot of different forums. Or fora, if you took high school Latin.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
tstark
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The method you describe is in the Card to Wallet Book by Jerry Mentzer from 1991. It is described as the Jerry Mentzer method with credits given to no one else. In the book he is very thorough about crediting and so my assumption is that this was his method. It is described as the method he had used for several years. He did not remove anything else from the wallet to cover the card. This is a standard method for producing a card, etc. from an envelope or card box and is generally not covered but done openly. I know that I purchased a gimmicked tobacco pouch back in the 70s which used a portion of a card on elastic in the pouch which created an optical illusion for the method we are discussing.
Julie
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Tsark's tobacco pouch was produced by the then-owner of the P&L name (in Florida?). He was the one who put the P&L name and logo on everything he sold. This tobacco pouch was actually a pretty good trick. He called it OSMOSIS.

Julie
DGillam
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This move is described for use as a coin load by Karl Fulves in the Harvy Rosenthal Close-up Folio vol 1 published in 1975 with The Pallbearer's Review. Mention is made that any other small object that can be concealed in the hand can be loaded by the same method.
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2009-06-10 19:45, georgecoolla wrote:
I believe the move goes way back, but I think when I learned this, this method was used to produce a signed card from spectator's wallet. So I'm just wondering, if I've created a trick that uses this method (with variation), and I want to write up a manuscript, who should I give the credit to? Or all I can say is, this move goes way back, and I'm not really sure who's the first one start to doing this. I would like to give the invented credit, but there are just too many good books and resources out there, and there's no way I can finish reading all of them in my life....but I just don't have enough time. Can someone give me some advice on this??

Bill, again, thanks for your reply!!!


It appears to me that you may be premature in writing up this trick. What have you actually done to make this original? You don't need to read ALL of the books and resources, but you absolutely MUST read the basics.

For example, if you have not read Erdnase, Expert Card Technique, Royal Road to Card Magic, The Dai Vernon Book of Magic, The LePaul Book and most of Nick Trost and Ed Marlo's material (not collaborations, by the way) then you haven't done your ground work. There are others that are basic, as well.

But you asbolutely MUST know the material that was written before, say 1970, because that's what most of the modern material is based upon. If all you are offering is your take on some rehashed material, then maybe it's not worth publishing.

I realize this may sound harsh, but if you haven't even made an effort to learn the basics, then how can you claim to have invented something?

Here's the danger problem: you publish your routine, even with credits. So now, people look at it and they ask a key question. "Okay, he credited all these people. Did he ask any of them for permission?"

If you are unwilling to take the time to do your own research, then the rest of us should also be unwilling to look at your products.

Your original post was very cryptic. I know you are trying not to reveal someone else's proprietary material, but if you want to know the answer, you have to turn loose of more than that. Post something in the Secret Sessions. Describe the move.

Or e-mail it to someone who might be able to help you.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Merc Man
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Pat Page covers this in his Card to Wallet production - originally released by Vic Pinto in the late 80's, and now owned by L&L.

Pat actually refers to the Cervon book, and it's incorrect referencing. Apparently, the first card to wallet referred to in the book is Hen Fetch's 'Wallet Wallop'. This is totally incorrect.

For example, a much earlier version was released by Billy O'Connor in the early 1930's called 'Nulli Secundus' (Latin for 'second to none'). John Scarne was also performing a version apparently - but I've never seen this in print. In the O'Connor version, the card was found sandwiched between two brass plates bound with multiple rubber bands - inside a wallet. Bobby Bernard states that there was a later version whereby the card was actually within an envelope, inside the plates (and within the wallet of course).

However, the version that you referring to in your initial post is a move created by Robert Houdin. Translated, it is actually called 'card to pocket book' and the trick is outlined within the 1881 Hoffman translation of Houdin's book - The Secrets of Stage Conjuring' (originally titled 'Magie et physique amusante'). The card is basically copped, the wallet is held longways on the palm (on top of the card), and as you just lift one side of the wallet open, you slide the card from underneath to give the impression it was inside.

Hope that this information helps.

Just to add, in all of the versions I have seen of this excellent trick (new versions of which seem to appear via magic dealers on a monthly basis these days) how many people are giving the correct crediting? Smile
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
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