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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » Diamond Cut Silks are not all equal (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Since the days of one of our earlier threads about diamond cut silks much has changed and there are some big differences to see in the quality of diamond cut silks. The magician can really benefit from the learning curve.

Today the good diamond cut silks are very different from even the best ones three years ago.

1. They are actually available in 100% pure China silk in colors that match the other square silks.

2. No more rolled hems sewn with a single gapping thread that comes loose and ravels. Today even the cheap ones (called "seventy-five cent silks" in the trade) have serger hems. Serger hems add no strength and are certainly inferior to the new 2mm flat hems. However, they do work best on silk cut diagonally rather than cut with the weave.

3. Now Diamond Cut Silks actually are diamond cut silks! ALL 4 sides measure The SAME. (No more of the seventy-five cent "kites" that have two long edges next to two short edges. These "kites" are hardly diamond shaped.) Now the center two corners of diamond cut are at the same level and actually in the middle between the ends of the silk! No more silks that have two mid points at two different levels or none in the center either! This is a critical and very great improvement over the errors of the past. They look like square silks now when held by one corner.

4. The new silks are carefully cut on the diagonal to hang like a silk square held by a corner rather than looking like a bath mat held along a straight edge. They are convincing. They drape like silk should.

5. There has been little or no change in price either. Good ones don't really cost more than the inferior ones.

This is a great deal of progress over the diamond cuts discussed in the earlier thread.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=54

Remember: Silk is never measured by anything but a hemmed edge. Don't pay 18" prices for a 12" silk. The diagonal length of a 12" diamond cut is about the same as the diagonal measurement of an 18" square silk. Reputable dealers will not quote you diagonal length without hem sizes. (Normally there is no reason at all to mislead you with diagonal length of a diamond cut silk.)

Now I gladly use diamond cut silks as a gimmick in silk magic.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
hugmagic
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Bob gives some good information here.

I would add that the measurements of hemmed silk is the raw size before hemming. A 24" is about 23" hemmed. It is not much but it may be important in some instances.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Bob Sanders
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Richard,

Thank you. That is true about silk measurements. It is like lumber. A 2x4 isn't a 2x4 when you get it! But, hopefully, it started out that size.

Measure, measure, Measure!


I got a great photo from Jimhlou here on The Magic Café of the difference in a real 18" diamond cut silk and a misrepresented one. The difference is not only the size which is 4x, but the price is the same! Thank you, Jim!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

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AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
Bob Sanders
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Jim,

That photo is certainly worth a 1000 words. It really removes the questions. The difference is about four time the size. Except for price and color they have nothing else in common. Make sure your dealer is quoting you the hemmed edge measurement and that all four sides are the same size.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- Jim, would you allow me to post that picture?
Bob Sanders

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jimhlou
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Absolutely!! My diamond silk education is complete. Now that I know the difference I'll never be short-sold again!

Jim
Bob Sanders
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Jim,

It is a lesson every professional magician needs to know.

Bob
Bob Sanders

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JayScottBerry
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Hi guys - I'll dive in here, as a professional performer who uses them regularly. These are the tools we use, nothing more.
I will say that I rarely use a square silk anymore and never once, in thousands of shows, have I had an audience member question the shape of the silk. My general rule is simply, if you have to open up the silk and show it as a square, use a square. If you don't, a Diamond Cut Silk may be a better alternative.
I have personally developed dozens of effects using the Diamond Cut Silks, from the basic Eclipse Tip Appearance,Colour Change &Vanish to the 21st Century Silks and the Diamond Fountains. Again, the best and most honest recommendation on all of these is that I use them, regularly, in all of my shows. They work, consistently. they last for a reasonable time, and they are colourful and visual props which pack small and play big.
I could speak volumes on this subject but will, instead, ask for questions, from anyone wishing to understand Diamond Silks better.
Cheers!
bojanbarisic
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Great to see you here Jay
Rainboguy
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I would never use anything but Jay Scott Berry's Diamond Cut Silks on my mutilated parasol.
Bob Sanders
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Here are two diamond cut silks bought by a Magic Café member. Both were sold as 18" diamond cut silks at the price of $5.00 (in 2009).

You can see there is certainly a great difference!

Click here to view attached image.
Bob Sanders

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Rainboguy
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And who said that size doesn't matter?
<smile>
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Quote:
On 2012-04-16 22:06, Rainboguy wrote:
I would never use anything but Jay Scott Berry's Diamond Cut Silks on my mutilated parasol.

If you are repairing a mutilated parasol, I would recommend checking with TheGreatNancini here on The Magic Café.

Bob
Bob Sanders

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Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Quote:
On 2012-05-22 18:29, Bob Sanders wrote:
Here are two diamond cut silks bought by a Magic Café member. Both were sold as 18" diamond cut silks at the price of $5.00 (in 2009).

You can see there is certainly a great difference!


I am frequently asked about the diagonal measurements of diamond cut silks.

Here they are:

This should help.

Measured diagonally

24" Diamond Cut Silk is about 51" tip to tip but looks like a 36" square

18" Diamond Cut Silk is about 38" tip to tip but looks like a 24" square

12" Diamond Cut Silk is about 26" tip to tip but looks like an 18" square

9" Diamond Cut Silk is about 18" tip to tip but looks like a 12" square

Silks are measured by their sewn hemmed edges, not diagonally. (All four sides should measure the same.)

The sometimes cheaper silks (called seventy-five cent silk in the import industry) will not have four equal sides and not hang like a square silk held by a corner. There is no 36" diamond cut silk. A 24" diamond cut silk looks like a 36" square silk. Please don't be fooled by DM (diagonal measurements) or the "Apparent size" descriptions of silks from vendors that maybe set out to mislead you. Also, many "silks and silk tricks" sold on the Internet are Not Silk!

Not all silks and diamond cut silks are the same! Know what you are buying.

See the photo above (May 22, 2012)

Click here to view attached image.
Bob Sanders

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AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
Mr. Mystoffelees
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I know silks would not work, but does anyone use diamond cut for Slydini Knotted Silks?

Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Rainboguy
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Mr. Mystoffelees:

I suggest that you DO NOT use silks or diamond-cut anything at all for Slydini's Knotted Silks...if you do the silks will bind and you will have one big mess! Diamond-cuts won't work due to the intracacies of Slydini's handling and presentation.

Do yourself a favor and buy the correct props for this routine which are ripstop nylon parachute material...and also CAREFULLY read, understand and PRACTICE Slydini's Various routines which are published.

I'm VERY fortunate to have two original sets that Tony gave me many years ago when I met him and spent a couple of hours with him at the Faucett Ross Magic fest in St. Joseph, Missouri.
When you use the proper props, methods and misdirection A LA Slydini...you will have a CLASSIC of magic to perform.
Bob Sanders
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Tony taught me using real silks. They were even two different colors to make learning easy. He also gave me the rip-stop Nylon ones he sold and even made me some colored ones since I am really a dove worker. The Nylon hems are wider and thicker than good silk hems which may be of some benefit for these routines. They are certainly cheaper than silk.
Bob Sanders

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Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
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Just ordered 3 silks from Bob Sanders, super fast service and delivery, great price and very very nice quality of silk.
Did I say I was very impressed with the silk quality, and the color is very vibrant.

They fit perfectly in my hand Tape Dye Tube.

Highly recommend Bob Sanders' silks for your magical needs.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Wow! Thank you Bill. That is really worth a lot coming from you. We know that you have seen many square miles of silk.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

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AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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This weekend I looked at diamond cut silks offered on the net. Virtually all were very poor. Most were not diamonds at all. (All four sides were not equal.) The center corners were not even near the center of the hanging silk. Some had TWO nonmatching center corners. Most were improperly measured. Legitimate dealers do not buy silk by diagonal measurements. Selling them that way is to fool the buyer.

A few had good hems but most had rolled hems.

The silk is what importers call 75 cent silk. It is the bottom of the barrel.

Suggestion: Diamond cut silk prices should be about the same as the price of the square silk it should have been made from. First buy a square from the dealer before buying the diamond cut. Use it to judge the quality. Remember that momme is only a measure of mass and not quality. (A pound of canner/cutter beef is not the same as a pound of choice or prime beef!) Look at hems that should be straight, very small and have square corners. Visually check the weave of the cloth for consistency of weave and color.

Good silk will cost you about twice as much now as it did a year ago. That is a function of the failing US dollar in foreign markets.

Be picky. Good silk will outlive you! Treat it as an investment.
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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LOL! Yesterday I got a complaint I like. "I'd like to change the colors in my show but your old silks don't show any wear."

The shelf life of good silk is about 200 years! (And the same guys waste three decks of cards a day... Yet they don't change silks.)

As the US dollar gains speed falling, silk won't get anything but higher priced. (Last year the USA was borrowing 40% of its spending. Currently it is borrowing 46% of its spending. The US dollar is even more worthless now and the outlook is awful. Revenues will really fall in 2013 with tax changes from Obamacare and income tax and SS withholding increases. You're not saving money by waiting.) The growth in GDP in Cuba is higher than it is in the USA!

Please feel free to change show colors!

Confession time: Yesterday I did my show in Mardi Gras colors because that was the bag I picked up. Red, White and Blue was what I had planned. But that is also magician's choice.
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
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