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Edward Cutting
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Hello again,

As I'm just doing some research for an effect I saw a long time ago in New York.. I forget who performed it but the effect went like this:

Three audience members were asked on-stage; they were given four envelopes to shuffle about and then they each chose one (the magician, his was a magic show, didn't touch the envelopes after handing them out); the people each chose a color from a choice of Red, Green, Blue and Black; opening their envelopes, inside was a card that said, respectively, "Spectator that chose (color)" and, the final envelope, not chosen by the spectators, had "Smart-*** Magician" written on it. The second time I saw the show, the choice was only between RGB, no black.

Anyone have any ideas where I might find hints as to the method? I thought of A. Gerard's lovely "The Color Of Money" but as that is a bit expensive for me I wouldn't go for it... but also, I believe this was released a few years after I witnessed the effect. I've scoured all sorts of stuff but for the life of me I just can't see what clever deviousness was behind this effect. I assume that no pre-show work was done, but then again, I can't be sure of that.

Anyway, if anyone might have any ideas, please, do let me know, here or through PM.

Sincerely,

Edward Cutting
kannon
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A good place to start would be with the work of Mr. Marc Spelmann (inner mind productions)
My work and the Mtangulizi here http://kannonsworks.weebly.com featuring work on drawing duplications, a fiddle-free billet tear, bar mentalism, pendulums
Pablo_Amira
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Martin Lewis Technicolor Prediction?
-------------------------------------------
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parmenion
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Sometimes funny it's like somebody doesn't understand an effect, he thinks almost automaticaly "oh, surely a pre show works" Smile
If the enveloppe were choose by the spectators it's not Martin Lewis.
Color of money neither
There are plenty of method for this kind of effect, now the problem is "what it really happens and what you have saw and now remenber".
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Dick Christian
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Parmenion,

I'm afraid you are mistaken. Although it may not be the effect that Edward Cutting is looking for, the spectators are the ones who choose the colors in Martin Lewis's "Technicolor Prediction." I am not familiar with Gerard's "Color Of Money."
Dick Christian
parmenion
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Yes, possible but in this case, the enveloppe are around the board.
Edward has not talked about this important point Smile
Besides,Paolo has a method without the support.
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
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<BR>
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lejon
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Quote:
On 2009-06-17 02:12, parmenion wrote:
Sometimes funny it's like somebody doesn't understand an effect, he thinks almost automatically, "oh, surely a pre show works" Smile

He actually says the opposite.
parmenion
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Quote:
On 2009-06-17 08:29, lejon wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-06-17 02:12, parmenion wrote:
Sometimes funny it's like somebody doesn't understand an effect, he thinks almost automatically "oh, surely a pre show works" Smile

He actually says the opposite.

Edward wrote :
Quote:
I assume that no pre-show work was done, but then again, I can't be sure of that."

Lejon, English is not my mother tongue but I think "assume" doesn't means "it's not."
and I can't be sure neither.
I always read carefully the posts before answer.
Please do the same...
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
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<BR>
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Floyd Collins
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Greg Arce a member her has an effect that sounds very close to what your looking for. You may want to PM him and see.
No one said it would be easy, or did they?

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Edward Cutting
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Thank you all for your responses.

Kannon, I'm not too familiar with Mr. Spelmann's work but I heard he has some superb thinking. I'll take a look around but I'm not much in the habit of purchasing things blindly when money is tight. School is rather expensive nowadays. Smile

Pablo, I've actually seen Lewis' Technicolor Prediction performed just last year and, while interesting, is not really close to what I am looking for. Although I don't know the method for that, I feel that it might not truly be workable for what I was looking at. But thanks so much for the recommendation, it's really a lovely effect.

Parmenion, as I am fairly well versed in mentalism texts, I keep an open mind when it comes to how to achieve an effect. When I create my routines, I start off with what I want the audience to see and then I naturally evolve whatever methods are appropriate to achieve this. As such, and knowing that we are tricky fiends, us mentalist types, I cannot rule out pre-show work. However, I do not believe that any had been used in this effect because of the type of engagement (comedy club hosting this magician's "magic night," though again, this still doesn't exclude preshow), and because everything else in the show was accomplished without that. However, I do believe the effect was self contained.

As for what I remember and what I actually saw, I can assure you that what I described was what happened... I have an embarrassingly good memory and tend not to forget things easily. The envelopes were black opaque envelopes which had, inside of them, white pieces of paper with the text "Spectator that chose red/green/blue." The magician began with the envelopes in his hand, handed them to one of the three volunteers when they came on-stage, and never touched them afterwards. Three envelopes were chosen randomly by the spectators, after they had shuffled them about; the last envelope was handed to the magician. On both nights, a switch occurred, where the magician instructed the volunteers to switch the envelopes amongst themselves (though he kept his envelope and that never came into play again until the end of the effect) to further randomize the outcome. The rest is in my first post.

I have come up with a possible way of achieving this effect using a switch force (because, I say to myself, why else have the spectators switch the envelopes amongst themselves) and Ted Lesley's Teleport Envelope; the method does have a problem which can be resolved with a bit of equivoquing but it could, essentially be very awkward and possibly illogical seeming and thus I would not be comfortable presenting it for an audience.

I asked for possible reference materials because, in remembering the effect, it struck me that such an excellent effect might be beyond the "creative" ability of this magician because all of his other effects were popular effects performed with more or less the exact patter written out in the instruction manuals (I knew some of the effects, being more into magic at the time, and was familiar enough with the material that I recognized the patter as being completely unoriginal). While the magician was comfortable on stage, the show itself was poorly scripted and routined (in my humble opinion, but then again, who am I, right) and contained almost as much dead time as actual performance. This led me to believe that the gentleman in question had found the effect published somewhere, saw it's potential and undelivered by delivering a wooden performance. I asked because I would like to perform a variation of this effect and would like to find out if I must contact someone for permission or to purchase a more elegant method than my wobbly creation.

Finally, aceofharts, thanks for the recommendation. I will be sure to send him a message.

Respectfully,

Edward Cutting
Floyd Collins
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Edward, what you describe sounds so much like Greg Arce routine, just with differnt color envelopes.

Good Luck

Floyd
No one said it would be easy, or did they?

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