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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » James Biss' Impressionable Mind Board (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Paul Carnazzo
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Shouldn't the market place decide if a product is worthy of the asking price?

Aren't some people selling other "childs toys" as the main component of their imp. devices?

Aren't some compilations of routines priced for more that $60, and no gimmicks are included? and doesn't mr. biss give such a compilation of routines? We've seen manuscripts for one effect selling for hundreds of dollars...

I'm not sure what the problem is, if you have a grudge against someone for some reason, that's fine. but to say he shouldn't market his ideas (his routines, in this example) for whatever asking price he wants, that's simply absurd.

Posted: Jul 1, 2009 5:20pm
Also,

the only way this could be considered a 'rip off' is if he was buying this toy, and then selling it as a toy.

if one were to buy lumber, and try to sell it as lumber for 10 times the price, that might be crazy. but if he were to make a piece of furniture, and sell it for ten times the price, no one would question it. it seems like that's what is being done here.
remember....always use your powers for good!

http://www.mentalvoyage.com
Domino Magic
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Quote:
On 2009-07-01 17:17, pmc magic wrote:
Shouldn't the market place decide if a product is worthy of the asking price?

Aren't some people selling other "childs toys" as the main component of their imp. devices?

Aren't some compilations of routines priced for more that $60, and no gimmicks are included? and doesn't mr. biss give such a compilation of routines? We've seen manuscripts for one effect selling for hundreds of dollars...

I'm not sure what the problem is, if you have a grudge against someone for some reason, that's fine. but to say he shouldn't market his ideas (his routines, in this example) for whatever asking price he wants, that's simply absurd.


I didn't say it wasn't worth the asking price. All I did was back up a comment someone else made that this was a toy. And yes, there is another toy that is component of another person's device, however the difference is in that device, the prop is custom made. This is exactly as it would be if you purchased the toy. I'm not saying that is good or bad, just stating the fact.

I never said he shouldn't sell or market his ideas. I have said he shouldn't sell or market OTHER magicians ideas. In fact I've stated several times, which obviously didn't sink in with you, that IF you like this routine - GREAT! If you're using it and getting value from it, GREAT!

So I'm not sure what YOUR problem is.
Bartelli
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Quote:
On 2009-07-01 17:20, pmc magic wrote:
Also,

the only way this could be considered a 'rip off' is if he was buying this toy, and then selling it as a toy.


For the record, I did say I didn't think the IMB is a rip off. The routine which is supplied with it (and is also described in his last book) is in my opinion indeed worth more then the the price asked for it. And I believe I now know why he doesn't sell the manuscripts seperately. Manuscripts can be easily copied. But the IMB device can't. So not exposing the origins of the board guarantees the selling of the manuscripts to people wanting to use his routine. And I'm a strong believer of the fact that if you want to use other people's ideas, you should pay for the rights of doing so. So if you want to use the routine and ideas mr. Biss sells, buy the IMB. If you want to use the board as a prop in your mentalism show, buy the IMB. Apparently James Biss was the first to think of using this exact board for mentalism. And the way he uses it, is his.
Paul Carnazzo
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Domino,

no problem here, and my post wasnt targeted at you, but at the overall negative feedback this product is getting.

also, I wasnt aware that biss was marketing other magicians ideas as his own, maybe I missed that in this thread. if that's the case, then obviously there are serious issues with his product.

what you said did sink in about 'if someone likes the routine, that's great.'

however, what YOU are having touble with is that the converse is true: if you don't like a product, that's great. no need to continuously bash someone for something you don't like. to go as far as to post photos of this 'toy' ... that, in my view, is very unethical and unprofessional.
remember....always use your powers for good!

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Bartelli
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To come to Domino's defence: he was pushed by other posters in this thread to prove his claim about having found the device for $10. He still hasn't exposed the source of the boards and I don't think he will.
Paul Carnazzo
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Thanks bartelli,

you raise several good points...

again, my original post wasnt targeted at anyone in particular... it just seems as though a few people have something against Biss and are taking it out here.

I don't know Biss, and I don't own an IMB, so I'm not defending him or the product, I'm just criticizing the ideology behind the negative arguments.
remember....always use your powers for good!

http://www.mentalvoyage.com
JamesBiss
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Have a great summer guys!

I'm off to Italy and Ireland in July, for a wee tour and then heading to Kenya with some fabulous teenagers to build a school house on the Masai Mara with the FreeTheChildren.org people. (Alas I won't be off spending the $50 profit, per Impressionable Mind Board, that some of you seem to have calculated that I'm pocketing. That TOO would be misinformed.) ;>)

While I'm away, if anyone would like to build their own Impressionable Mind Board, as I describe in Mind Blowing, please go right ahead. The book also contains some routining ideas with it that are quite valuable. You'll need to do some modifications to any of the magnetophoretic "Magna Doodle" type boards you get your hands on, but it can be done. I can assure you that the IMB is not merely a $10 toy, as I've said before. But you could start there. After your modifications with the additional layer of plastic, which I have die-cut in quantity to fit properly, you'll need to do some adhesive work. It's a bit tricky and you'll probably go through several boards to get it right. (I suppose you could make the other component from cardboard or cut plastic yourself. I'm not sure what your time is worth or what having a custom die would cost you.)

You'll also need a few other accessories which obviously come packaged with the IMB. I include these so performers will have everything they need to get started. A trip to an office supply store and a bit of reseach should do the trick however. They retail for about $10 I think.

The very magical markers which come with the IMB are tricky to do it yourself. After much research and trial and error, I figured out how to insert the special something, but it's a bit knacky. With much trial and error and markers I'm sure you could probably get the hang of it too however. The M***** and markers will cost you less than $10 if you know where to look. In the Extremely Mental Edition of Mind Blowing I tipped exactly how we do the actual insertion, but that's now out of print (I'm sure a few copies are still floating around however this summer. The original price of the Extremely Mental Edition was $89.) Those folks that use our markers will agree they're both functional and completely innocent looking compared with earlier attempts.

Thanks for noticing the value of the presentations that also come with the IMB on the 12 page manuscript! I'd like to think they're actually worth hundreds of dollars, and many do. If you're a pro I think you'll see that too. In any case, Mind Blowing, the book - including the new Paperback, comes with these, so if you do decide to do it all yourself it would be a good idea to get your own copy to learn how to use it properly as performers all over the world do. (The new paperback Mind Blowing is selling for under $70 and also functions as an incredible on stage prop!)

Alternatively, if you choose not to make your own IMB, please feel free to support your favourite magic dealer and purchase one complete and ready to go! I know he or she will appreciate their necessary and reasonable margin. Our distributor friends, who get the IMBs to these resellers, will also appreciate their reasonable margin. I know that I appreciate my $10 for my reasonable efforts and I thank you all for your purchases!

I hope this all helps and settles some of you down. Perhaps not. With all due respect, some of you could probably use your time more wisely...like working on making your performances more Mind Blowing or coming up with some new ideas or products. But thanks for the lively discussion and PR.

Hope your summer is a creative one!

Ciao,

James
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Domino Magic
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Quote:
On 2009-07-02 13:42, JamesBiss wrote:
...You'll need to do some modifications to any of the magnetophoretic "Magna Doodle" type boards you get your hands on, but it can be done. I can assure you that the IMB is not merely a $10 toy, as I've said before. But you could start there. After your modifications with the additional layer of plastic, which I have die-cut in quantity to fit properly, you'll need to do some adhesive work. It's a bit tricky and you'll probably go through several boards to get it right. (I suppose you could make the other component from cardboard or cut plastic yourself. I'm not sure what your time is worth or what having a custom die would cost you.)


Interesting response there James. For those looking for these boards, don't search for Magna Doodle boards - he's only trying to throw you off because they are not Magna Doodles and as for any modifications to a board that has printing on the frame, like the photos I showed - it will take you 10 minutes of modification and it will not take you several boards.

If you DO NOT have the prop, then you're better off just buying one from a dealer, however if you're looking for a back-up prop, you're better off spending a few minutes tracking one down online.

By the way - Reuben - I'm waiting for your apology.
mindpunisher
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Yep Biss really respects the intellegence of his customers. I can't believe they still support him when he treats them like idiots.
Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2009-07-01 09:49, mindpunisher wrote:
>>>Am "ethical guy" would not make accusations then clam up when asked to provide proof. BTY, if you don't want to publically reveal your sources, then PM me. If you're right in this, I'll pubically appoligse here and remain silent on the matter.<<<


Now we see the truth old Ruby wants cheap boards just for himself!


Nope...

I will state again my objectctions to the path that this thread has taken.

"I have an identical board that I got for $10.00." "However because I'm ethical I won't support this statement with proof. I will however give you the impression that you've been ripped off because James uses a "toy" and charges a sizable markoff.

When pressed as to providing proof that this identical board is available on the market, the statement is now, I got this on an online toy store; again no URL.

Cheap?

Nah. I've had one for the past two years.

I will publically state that I have no interest at all in purchasing a cheaper knock off board. I have no use for it as doing such effects as are used with the board are limited in my performances.

As to an apology to Dominc... I do apologise to him.

He sent me a link that goes to a site that sells boards that appear to use similar technology. While this isn't the acutual site he referenced, and while the boards are not being sold for $10.00 as claimed, the URL does fit both the spirit and, to an extent, the letter of my repeated requests for Dominc to prove his accusations.

At the end of the day does it REALLY matter where Mr Biss gets the boards from?

Several years ago Larry Becker, using a toy violin marketed it with a fairly good routine at what some would consider a rather high price; the toy itself, at one supplier that I use, is sold wholesale for about $15.00 each.

However having the toy is one thing. Having the routine and staging advice that Becker gives is entirely another, and many would say that the price that the Becker "toy" sold for was worth the additional price mark-up.

A pity some here either will not, or cannot make the same statement about Biss' IMB.

I am fortunate enough to have his published writings on the use of the board, as well as a DVD of the use of the board, I know several here who use the board to their great advantage.

I've seen this derailment of the tread, the attempt to down play it value with "It's just a cheap toy" as ***ing with very, very faint praise.

The inference has been, well, if you've had success with this $10.00 toy then you have had your monies worth. However, if you want to save some money, just do a search and you'll find an identical board for $10.00.

My neck hairs rise at this attitude, just as it did when I was a very small boy and was told by an older boy, "Santa's all right, if you actually believe in that sort of thing."

That kind of superior attiude was Juvinille then, when I was eight. It's even more so when I'm forty years older.
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
mindpunisher
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So the fact he lies to his customers treats them like idiots and regularly steals from other creators doesn't really matter?
Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2009-07-01 11:38, Domino Magic wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-07-01 09:49, mindpunisher wrote:

Now we see the truth old Ruby wants cheap boards just for himself!


It's been interesting to see how many people sent me a pm asking for the resource. Some feel IMB is too expensive, others say they can't afford it, others want a back up prop. I've ignored everyone. And yes, it's apparent that Reuben wants a few cheap ones himself and he thinks he can "dare me" into giving up the goods.


You had better not lay claims in your show to actually read minds Domino; or at least that you are 100% right. {;-)
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


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ElliottB
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I don’t own any impression devices and am unfamiliar with the methodology used for such gimmicks, as well as the specifics of the controversy surrounding Mr. Biss’s products. That said, I couldn’t risk a quick scan of this thread. My impression (pun intended) is that some of the recent posts seem utterly ridiculous and even self-contradictory. It seems unfair to me that, on some boards, people can hide behind a fake name, as they tarnish another fellow’s reputation with clearly malicious and libelous accusations. These pseudonyms allow people with an evident agenda to say whatever they wish about another fellow, maligning the other fellow in searchable print for all time, without fear of having to stand behind their words, either in court or in the face of their peers. It just doesn’t seem right.
Domino Magic
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Well Elliot, since you're unfamiliar with the controversies surrounding Biss, I would recommend that you do a search on The Café and read about them. What you will find are some very well respected names have spoken out against him because of his willingness to take other magician's material and publish them as his own. Maybe one day Biss will takes something of yours, call it his own and you may form another opinion.
Tony Iacoviello
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Sorry, I find the hypocrisy in this thread too much. One person claiming that the IMB is a commercially available product, which it is not. Then putting up pictures of products that can be used to “construct” an IMB. You can reverse engineer most any product, why pick this one? I also find it interesting that it seems OK to publish on an open forum (or any forum for that matter) how to mimic and build your own version of a commercial item. In my opinion, bad form and the actions of an expositor!

And the continued posts where people claim it is the same as the Buma Board, something that is not true. I own both, and they use the same technology, but are different in usage and construction. There is, however another product mentioned in this thread that is a direct copy of the Buma products, in construction, methodology, materials, and usage, but nothing has been said about that. Interesting.

Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On 2009-07-03 12:07, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Sorry, I find the hypocrisy in this thread too much.


You really crack me up with that comment. You know very well the Biss has been stealing from others for a long time now, yet you want to support his behavior.

So since unethical behavior is to be defended and praised, then let me help some of you search. Biss is throwing you off with the magna doodle board. Search for "magnetic gel board" and that should help you out a bit more. Maybe you can find some use for it in your act, or if you have a kid, they would appreciate playing with it.
Tony Iacoviello
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As I said before, bad form and the actions of an expositor.

For your other comments, I suggest you actually read what I wrote.

If your problem with James Biss is that he has published the ideas of others, congratulations. You have done the same thing here and are just as guilty!

The brush paints both ways.
Quote:
You really crack me up with that comment. You know very well the Biss has been stealing from others for a long time now, yet you want to support his behavior.

So since unethical behavior is to be defended and praised, then let me help some of you search. Biss is throwing you off with the magna doodle board. Search for "magnetic gel board" and that should help you out a bit more. Maybe you can find some use for it in your act, or if you have a kid, they would appreciate playing with it.



Tony Iacoviello
Reuben Dunn
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I'm now wondering if "Dominio" will now open a BUMA thread and state that it too is a $4.00 toy found on the internet.

He/she's remained silent on this, as well as similar impression boards that are making the rounds at the moment, as evidenced by the PM I've recently received concerning a smaller sized board.

Biss seems to be fair game from some who have not actually read his books, or who take apparent pride in proclaiming that he is using an educational toy.

Tony Wrote:
Quote:

And the continued posts where people claim it is the same as the Buma Board, something that is not true. I own both, and they use the same technology, but are different in usage and construction. There is, however another product mentioned in this thread that is a direct copy of the Buma products, in construction, methodology, materials, and usage, but nothing has been said about that. Interesting.


Don't worry Tony, Domino stated that he's an ethicial guy; I'm sure that he'll open up a thread in a day or so to raise similar concerns about this copy cat product, as well as one on the Buma board, after all, it's JUST a $4.95 toy after all....
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
Dynamike
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I have been using the IMB for almost 3 years. I love it. The instructions also shows 3 different phases you can do with it in one routine. Some members were trying to steer me away from it when I first purchased it. I bet it is because they do not have one, or because it is NOT a toy like the little babies expected: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15
Domino Magic
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Once again, for those of you who cannot read. Sven called it a toy. I backed him up. I showed you that the IMB is the same thing as a $10.00 toy. This wasn't something he created. Buy the toy for $10 (or less if you bother to do a search) or buy it for $69 from Biss. Either way, you get the same thing. Learn to make the markers yourself for about $3.00 or buy X Board refills:

http://www.thecentertear.com/full/Magic-......5437.htm

Reuben never did apologize, even though he said he would after I proved him wrong. So now that he found his sources for a less expensive board, he can go away happy.

That's it for me on this thread, so carry on.
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