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StuartNolan Elite user 480 Posts 
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I have a gig soon at the Biannual Conference of the International Gothic Association. This is an association of academics who study the Gothic mainly in literature and film though some look at newer media like games and the Internet. (I'm not sure how many of the academics will also be Goths in the subculture sense.)
This gig has got me thinking and reading about the Gothic and considering how it relates to Bizarre magic. From my reading I understand that the Gothic is difficult to define as it means lots of different things to different people so I'm not concerned with strict definitions. Is the concept of the Gothic important to you? Is it something that you are interested in or use for inspiration? Do you think your performances are Gothic? I'm asking these questions because I want to prepare well for the gig but also because it is making me think about the way I script my magic. As someone new to a serious study of the Gothic I'd love to hear your opinions on this subject. s
"One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde
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The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3910 Posts
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Gothic litterature ? The Castle of Otrante, Frankenstein, Dracula and classical gothic litterature ?
Bizarre magic relates to fantastic litterature and cinema in a larger spectre than only gothic. It relates to traditional and urban mythologies too. The earlier orientation of Invocation and The New Invocation magazines was obviously gothic but things have changed since that time. Early European bizarrists like Punx and Tony "Doc" Shiels weren't specifically involved in the gothic movement either. For my part, I don't feel involved at all with gothic subculture even if I've some sympathy with the movement. |
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StuartNolan Elite user 480 Posts
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I've never been a part of the goth subculture myself either. I was a punk in the 70's and I guess there was some crossover but it never took with me. Pretty much all the goths I've ever met have been lovely people though. I think they would do a good job of running the world
Its "Gothic" as in the literature and media that interests me rather than "Goth" as in the subculture. Maybe the gothic influences on bizarre magic have faded then? Or have they just become more subtle and less overt? More psychology than spirit? One of the things that I like about gothic literature is the relish with which the darker elements of the stories are told. And the rhythms of that relish. Its a tone and sound thing. The cadence of the speech rather than the specific subject matter of the stories. I like Poe a lot.
"One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde
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matt straightedge New user 90 Posts
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Do yourself a big favor and get a hold of Michael fraughton on here. he's performed at gothic festivals in the past I'm sure it would do you some good. check out his website too to get a taste of his style- http://www.bizarremagic.com
Revolutionary but gangster
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StrangeMagick Special user 635 Posts
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I'm a member of the Inner Circle of Bizarre Magick for a while (ICBMMagick.com)and from what I know about Bizarre Magick in U.S. and through members, there are several magicians who are either directly involved in the Gothic scene and/or the Vampire community. I suggest you contact Vlad (GothicMagic.com), as he's more suited than I to answer the question.
I was a member of the Punk/Hardcore sub-culture in the early to late 1980s in Philly. At that time, in that location, there wasn't a separation of Goth and Punk. I've been told that in NYC there was a separation by the mid 1980s. I think the elements of Goth, especially Goth literature are very much alive in Bizarre Magick ... but then again, there really aren't THAT MANY of us who actually perform this stuff for paying audiences. I know Christian IS one of those who actually performs Bizarre Magick for $$$, but there are many on this board who only collect the stuff. Now, I'm not a professional, but I have been performing Bizarre Magick for audiences since the early to mid 1990s and have attended many, many, Bizarre Magick Gatherings in the U.S. and even a couple in Scotland. Hope this helps, Dave Birtwell |
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts
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I think Goth and the Gothic is one influence on Bizarre because of atmosphere and emotional connection that goes along with it. Being that Bizarre is theatrical, we draw upon many things to develop effects and personna. Goth seems to center on a certain timeline, likely the same as "Gothic Romanticism" in literature, from the 18th to the 19th century, judging from apparel, whereas "Gothic" in reference to architecture and style originated in the 12th century up to the 16th century.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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StuartNolan Elite user 480 Posts
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Thanks guys, your posts are very helpful and have given me some more things to research.
Dave, you say that there are very few who get to perform Bizarre Magick for proper bucks (or pounds sterling as we have on my soggy island) and I'm sure that's true. But could it be argued that Bizarre Magick has had a big influence on some of the very successful performers of our day? I saw Derren Brown recently and there are certainly Gothic elements in his work. The slightly arch storytelling, the Victoriana, some of the dark themes he uses. I'm off to Wakefield today to go to Merlin's Magic Shop. Luna or Witches Almanac or Luna? Hmm! I spent part of yesterday aging a handful of bullets. Life is good. s
"One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde
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LebanonCircle Special user London, UK 908 Posts
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I was heavily into the Goth scene as a youngster and still follow it although my previous stint in the armed forces and current job means the raven black hair and eyeliner has to remain off the menu (for the time being!)
I would say that my transition over to the darkside started as a mere lad with an interest in ghosts and fantasy stuff like Warhammer etc. Then I hit puberty and discovered The Cure, then Bauhaus and I became more arty and individual. I was only introduced to bizarre magic about 5 years ago but I found it such a creative outlet for all of the goth inspired images in my head. I would honestly say that if bizarre magic is my hearse, then goth culture fuels it 100% Regards Dan Lebanon Circle |
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The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3910 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-25 03:12, StuartNolan wrote: Luna : http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=14&68 Witches : http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......start=60 |
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StuartNolan Elite user 480 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-25 03:25, LebanonCircle wrote: <quote> Nice. I'm imagining a hearse like the one in Harold and Maude. See, I think the armed forces could benefit from an all goth regiment. Imagine the tanks! I remember seeing Bauhaus at the Futurama Festival in 1981. Pete Murphy did the second half of the gig wearing only underpants and a badge (pinned to the underpants). Gang of Four were even better though. I was a big Birthday Party fan at one time. I once saw them supporting The Fall - one of my best gigs ever. Today I realize I also need to find a small bead that can be referred to as "the eye of a raven". Time to call my trainee taxidermist friend Andy.
"One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde
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Bill Ligon Inner circle A sure sign of a misspent youth: 6437 Posts
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Quote:
See, I think the armed forces could benefit from an all goth regiment. Imagine the tanks! Imagine the effect on the enemy!
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE |
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The Wizard of Hearts Veteran user Tulsa, Oklahoma 323 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-25 03:49, StuartNolan wrote: I've had call for that exact ingredient in a recipe. I finally settled on a medium black peppercorn with some dullcote on the back and some shiny clearcoat on the front. Nobody would want to touch it anyway. |
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StrangeMagick Special user 635 Posts
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Quote:
Luna or Witches Almanac or Luna? Hmm! I myself couldn't decide so I got them both. I haven't used either in performances yet, as I took most of the last year off from performing to handle my mom's estate and family stuff, but I look forward to using both. I think the Witches Almanac might go over better for me, as I generally perform in Salem Massachusetts, USA ... where the Witches Almanac was supposedly published. This gives me a lot of room for a backstory. I agree that Bizarre Magick has had a much larger influence on the "bigger" performers as of the last decade. I think this is because of things like the Internet. One can now type in "Bizarre Magick" and bring up links to books, manuscripts and effects. When I first discovered Bizarre Magick, there was a small group of perfromers doing the stuff. Thank the gods for the Invocation and New Invocation. BTW, the first Bizarre Magick books I got were s couple of Charles Cameron booklets when I was in my mid-teens. I liked spooky magic(k), but performed more mainstream stuff then. When I re-discovered magic in the late 1980s (I took most of the 1980s off to play in punk bands) I did so through Lovecraftian Ceremonies and the New Invocation. Unfortunately, I missed Bauhaus play here in the states (I was so plugged into the scene yet) but I did see the Gang of Four. My favorite band at that time was the Stranglers ... still love 'em and got to see them about 3 times. Dave |
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StuartNolan Elite user 480 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-25 09:38, The Wizard of Hearts wrote: Mine needs to be inlaid into the top of box. I found this nice place... http://www.snowdoniasupplies.co.uk/cgi-b......intro.pl I went for Luna as it fits well with the other things in my box. Also bought some more bullets to age with liver of sulphur and some ring boxes which also need to be battered and aged. Getting back to the gothic. I'm taken by the idea of the collector who brings the strange and mysterious from both near and from far away places into ordinary lives. The unexpected guest. The cabinet of curiosities - the wunderkammer. I'm seeking stories from gothic fiction that involve collector-like characters. s Dave, I went to one of the Charles Cameron memorial events in Edinburgh a few years back. Wonderful weekend.
"One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4698 Posts
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With the current fad of vampires hitting the mainstream, I've retooled my cabaret show to become the "Théârte des Vampires" (with nods to Anne Rice). All the acts have a vampire theme; music, acrobatics, geek stunts.
I'm finding it very easy adapting my existing material to now have a vampire flavor to it (I already was pretty close). While the Witches Almanac is a great fit, I'm sticking with LUNA, since vampires and asylums have had a good connection ever since Bram Stoker's take on the legend.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3910 Posts
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If you read between the lines of the KGB thread, you'll find some very interesting hidden concepts about werewolves (and why not, vampires). Different from Vampire ESP.
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts
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I would say there's probably more people making money performing bizarre than you realize. Sure, we are not booked at the Castle and don't perform much at all on the tv, but there are quite a few bizarrists out there. We will quietly and insidiously take over the mindset of magic. I must admit it is a selfish wish as I can't watch much regular magic without wanting to engage in self-immolation.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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Jeb Ho New user 1 Post
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As a fellow presenter and performer at the said conference, I though I’d chip into the thread. (And as my first post)
I think it's really important not to blur Gothic (youth?) Sub-culture with Gothic (literature based?) themes. Yes, you can argue for a cross-over, but the themes of excess /transgression/the sublime should be separated for the purposes of analysis. The meta-language/meta-narrative dramaturgy of the bizarre performer is perhaps the most complex in magic, but it simultaneously and delightfully simple. The construction of the performance text of the bizarre magician, in my mind has very little to do with the construction of the performance text of a band like the "Sisters of Mercy" (Who are the best and only true goth band ever  )
But inevitably going back to Goth (youth?) culture and ‘embracing the butcher’; this died as soon it became commercial, in much the same way as punk. So-called Goth bands borrow more freely from a wider circle of themes derived, in the main, from commercial sources. Yours being delightfully ambiguous and circling my arguments, Nik |
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Silvertongue Inner circle One day I will die leaving behind 2426 Posts
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I'm not too sure what Gothic stands for myself but it brings an image to mind of Neo from the Matrix. Also vampires, already mentioned... Luna and Witches and Relic or Templar... Tears of blood, needle/safety pin thru arm. Stigmata.
Macabre, horror, ghost, death stories... I think the collector bit will work perfectly for this audience even if it only one piece you show. I think the Goth has led onto what is now known as Emo - correct me if I'm wrong - There are a lot of similarity's anyway. In relation to this I would perform mindreading. Hauntiques is a must and check out Chelmans website for bizarre collector stuff, also there are a couple of video's on youtube about haunted antiques. I have also noticed a young Latino movement into the goth/emo style so maybe something to do with Santa Muerte or Brujeria? There sooo much... What sort of things are you thinking? I think tears of blood is definatly a gothic image... Anyway let us know what happens...
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence, For that long, may I too remain, to dispel the sufferings of the world. -Shantideva Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva |
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davidmag Regular user 195 Posts
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Jeb Ho, I´m glad that you mentioned ½Sisters of Mercy½. One of my giants in music.
You need to dig out their albums guys! Pop SoM in cd-player and you will get inspiration for a lot of crazy stuff! |
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Posted: Jun 24, 2009 06:07 pm 
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