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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » Gaff making: DMT recommendations? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Amazing Noobini
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My latest attempt in my long run of failures at making gaff cards involved using Dry Mounting Tissue. I finally managed to track down a pack of Bienfang ColorMount DMT, wich gave me some pretty dismal results. Again the gaffs are buckled and nothing seems to make the warped split cards flat again. (See attached photo for a good laugh.)

The DMT in question is intended for RC color photographs and I suspect that this may be the explanation as to why it doesn't stick properly to my split cards. Flex them a little and a crunchy sound is heard as the stiff (too stiff) DMT starts to come loose.

Should I look for DMT for fiber based (Baryte) photo paper? I assume that this will closer match the open paper surface of the split cards than the Color RC DMT, which is more for modern more plastic like photo paper. But I don't want to buy more stuff now that might possibly work.

I already have all the DVDs and literature needed on the subject of gaff making, but I have no way of getting advanced things like presses here. So I will have to make do with a household iron.

What I would like to know is if any amateur who does not sell any products related to gaff making has ever managed to make a perfect double facer using DMT and a regular old iron. If so, what kind of DMT was used and can it be bought here in Europe?

Click here to view attached image.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
DomKabala
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Noobini, can you get (find) rubber cement (as recommended in Martini's DVD, "The Art of Card Splitting")? I use this all the time and have had excellent results.

Cardamagically,
Dom Smile Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



Smile Smile Smile Smile
The Amazing Noobini
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Dom, I started out using Rubber Cement which gave me equally bad results. Rubber Cement is not intended for paper and there were some discoloration to most of my rubber cement gaffs. Also, I'm looking at an old unused gaff now and it is coming apart at the edges. All the other ones were so bad that I threw them away.

Also, with Rubber Cement I have gotten the same poor results with a wrinkle forming across the card when it has been handled and flexed a little. The halves never fully fused all over and the thin side will always wrinkle when the card is bent. I get this with the DMT gaffs as well.

And of course, I never did lick the problem of diagonal curling using that technique either. Once split the halves are forever inclined to curl up, as a lot of other gaff makers have written about in other threads in the past. I was hoping that the heat and pressure of the iron would flatten the DMT gaffs, but no. Being based on one thin and and one thick side, they will all curl in one direction when heated.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Rpascual
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Send a pm to martini and tell him the problems you are having he should be able to help you out.
jordanl
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Best-test rubber cement was recommended to me by a friend who makes excellent gaff cards, I do not know if it is available in Europe.

http://papercement.com/findus.html
Carducci
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I think the problem is rubber cement means different things in different countries (the very fact that you say rubber cement is not intended for paper proves this).

When I lived in europe, it took me years to find anything that resembled rubber cement in the US. There were adhesives called rubber cement, or that looked like rubber cement, but I got the same dismal results that you did. This is what I found eventually http://www.discountart.co.uk/_Studio_Gum_cat_149.html and it worked very well.

One of the hallmarks of rubber cement is that it won't wrinkle.

Your best bet is to find your local equivalent to american Rubber Cement.
The Amazing Noobini
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As I cannot find my stash of Rubber Cement (I put the tubes in a safe place so I would know where to find them), I cannot read exactly what the label said. The tubes were however the only rubber cement I have found in Norway at all so I never had a choice.

You may very well be right, Carducci. It is possible that the adhesive you speak of is what is called either Contact Glue or Mounting Glue here (skillfully translated from Norwegian) and those products do not mention paper of any kind among their many recommended uses.

I could never import US or UK rubber cement here as it is toxic and it would mean a huge tax and lots of paperwork. I don't remember the details but I did check that out at one point. So that is not an option, I'm afraid. If it's not on the shelves here (few things are as people here don't generally make anything, they buy readymade).

I thank you all for your information and advice! But I have read several comments in the past from people who say they have gotten better/cleaner/snappier results with DMT, so I would like to explore that route further.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
edh
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Pete Biro also has some insight on the use of DMT. You might want to send him a PM.
Magic is a vanishing art.
edh
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BTW do you have the booklet called the Gaff Factory? Is this what you're Using?

Bienfang/Seal’s Colormount 8” x 10”.
Magic is a vanishing art.
The Amazing Noobini
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Hmmm. I see now that I have overlooked the possibility of using only the thin card sides and more than one layer of DMT. I have used one thin and one thick side. How could I have missed that? I mean, I read it and then my brain filtered it out somehow. Probably because I have used both thick and thin together for the Rubber Cement trials. Perhaps this will resolve the issue of the curl of the cards based on different thickness sides with different tension.

edh, yes this is what I'm using. But there are more than one type of those with the same name and label, intended for different surfaces, plastic coated or fiber based papers.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
edh
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Please let us know how you make out.
Magic is a vanishing art.
The Amazing Noobini
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Yes, I suppose if I buy an iron myself I wouldn't have to go across town to make up a gaff. Things would progress quicker.

Perhaps I could rig up something, like a converted toast or waffle iron that actually presses and heats on both sides. Still... there would be no temperature selection option on any of those. An iron at least lets you choose between cotton, wool and linen. Smile
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Voldemort
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That's sort of a good idea! Some of the more upscale waffle irons (At least here in the states) actually have a dial thermostat right on the iron itself. A little fussing aroung and making a few plates and figuring out the temps, and that would probably work great!

At least it may be something to try.

Thanks for the idea Noobini!

V.
"Flight from death"
Buy the WILD AT HEART e-book to help Rachael Columbini here: http://www.lybrary.com/wild-heart-p-76110.html
DomKabala
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http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.j......=ove_ssp

This is what Martini recommends in his DVD. Note that there are two formulas and Martini recommends the Non-Wrinkling formula. As I have stated before, I use this brand (I buy it at Wal-Mart) and I get excellent results.

When you apply the cement you must apply a THIN layer on both substrates and allow COMPLETE drying before assembly. Also you MUST clamp the gaff between two flat pieces of metal or plastic. I use two 1/4" thick pieces of Plexiglass and a spring clamp to flatten the gaff over night.

Cardamagically,
Dom Smile Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



Smile Smile Smile Smile
The Amazing Noobini
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Dom, there are no Walgreens or Wal-Marts in Norway. (much like there are no Jernia or Clas Ohlson in the States). Smile

You bring up a good point about the drying prior to assembly. I read this only a few days ago and I'm fairly certain that I never did that in my Rubber Cement experiments.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Carducci
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You've got a different rubber cement, I doubt that would help in this case. See if that art supply place in the UK will ship to Norway.

On another note, if you wanted to heat from both sides, you could use foil. In this case, put foil (shiny side up) on the board, then the cards, then the iron. The foil will reflect some of the heat.
Kjellstrom
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Art of Card Splitting DVD.

http://www.magicmakersinc.com/dvds/cardsplitting.html

"As an added bonus “Martini” demonstrates the most famous packet tricks that use gimmicked cards and explains how to make & perform them"
slim23
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I do a lot of gaff cards using the techniques I found in Martini's DVD, "The Art of Card Splitting". There are two types of rubber cement.
I tried two version Elmer's rubber cement.
The one with Craft bond written on it whitch is suppose to be adequate for paper did the wrinkles you wrote about.
The one that works best is E904, as Martini as said.
In canada, it was impossible to find so I went to Elmer's website to find a number that fits. In my case, it was 61518. The stores have better ressources to find product equivalence. The point is you could find something on their site for Norway. With this rubber cement, everything work out find and I did not need to iron thecards. Only put them in clamps for 48 hours. I use them everytime. Of course, they will were out faster. But for my part, I needed other kinds of DF to do Vernon's mental force described by Hugard.

Hope this helps( although you look like you alresady tried )

Slim
Magiguy
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Seattle, WA
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If you want to use DMT (which I personally LOVE), do yourself a favor and invest in one of Todd Lassen's Gaffing Genii's.

The DMT and release paper I purchase is from Film Source, Inc.
QuailCreek
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Great information. I found this thread as I was looking for a place to buy gaffed cards. I'd much rather be able to develop my own.

Magiguy, do you think you could spare some time to get me started in the right direction? Fellow Washingtonian and all.

Thanks,
Tom
Regards,
Silverthorne
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