The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Believe it or not... » » Hmmmm.... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
dpe666
View Profile
Inner circle
2890 Posts

Profile of dpe666
Have you ever wondered who the 1st person was who said, "Putting my hand in this animal trap sounds like a GOOD idea!" Or who thought, "I think I will eat this lightbulb today!" Or who said, "I want to shove this nail up my nose and see what happens!" Yes, this is my way of asking for some history. Smile
Martin_Ling
View Profile
Loyal user
269 Posts

Profile of Martin_Ling
If I am wondering the same as you, then I wouldnt have the history that you are asking for.
The Curator of the Unusual
View Profile
Inner circle
Tampa FL
1399 Posts

Profile of The Curator of the Unusual
If Sideshow History is what you seek...Then you have to seek out the "King"...Ward Hall, he has lived more History than all the rest of us combined...However, you better Hurry as he is nearing 80...The reason I say this..is..I have aextensive Circus Book collection, I have read them all, Yet I learned more from talkin to the Old-timers, and livin it myself then I ever did from a book...Historians always write what they think, Not nessasarily what really happened (See James Taylor)....or, "Tellin other Folk's stories...Just isn't the same as bein on the side of the road with your own Flat-tire....Which most Historians have never been through except ..Perhaps Al Stencil......
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel

contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com
The Curator of the Unusual
View Profile
Inner circle
Tampa FL
1399 Posts

Profile of The Curator of the Unusual
John Robinson is a truly Great man, providing a service like No other in the Sideshow Business, I see him like the old L.A. Times Billboards which read: "Everyone has a story...We intend to tell them all"...JR is to be Truly applauded, or at least told just a simple "Thanks"....
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel

contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com
dpe666
View Profile
Inner circle
2890 Posts

Profile of dpe666
Do you have any contact information on these two men? Smile
The Curator of the Unusual
View Profile
Inner circle
Tampa FL
1399 Posts

Profile of The Curator of the Unusual
Yes...E-mail me or PM me.....
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel

contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com
Harley Newman
View Profile
Inner circle
5107 Posts

Profile of Harley Newman
"Sideshow" history, is only the last 150 years. Most of the genre is thousands of years older, or derived from that body of material.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

www.bladewalker.com
The Curator of the Unusual
View Profile
Inner circle
Tampa FL
1399 Posts

Profile of The Curator of the Unusual
I'd like to add, talkin to anyone in this Business is a Treasure...Example: I would love to sit down with Harley and hear his "Trials and Tribulations" of traveling with the Indianapolis Clowns!...or his stories from the Road...or Todd's or Stephons or TgN's, Dougs, Kondini's,or anyone else that performed or took part in any/all aspects of this Business...Books are a wonderful thing, But talkin to the Folks, all Folks, tellin their stories in person, makes the Books or written stories...a Lot more closer to home...Both I guess are needed, But one without the other, just isn't the same....
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel

contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com
The Curator of the Unusual
View Profile
Inner circle
Tampa FL
1399 Posts

Profile of The Curator of the Unusual
Quote:
On 2009-06-26 00:31, Harley Newman wrote:
"Sideshow" history, is only the last 150 years. Most of the genre is thousands of years older, or derived from that body of material.


that's were Books come in...Yet we will go to the Ends of the earth, to find a "Magic" prop, Yet we sometimes won't seek out the Living...Some of the Best times I ever have had, is sitting listening to Ward and C.M. tell me their Live experiences...Sitting with Buckles in the Showtime Lounge (Jimmy Hall and Lee also) was priceless last winter....We all met for Breakfast and walked out after dark..I missed meeting Evel...I hope I make time for others....
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel

contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com
thegreatnippulini
View Profile
Inner circle
of Hell because I've made
2589 Posts

Profile of thegreatnippulini
Jim, did you know that I worked the WOW for the Reithoffers 4 years in a row? Or that I worked the blow off for Jack Constantine where he had no other live act but myself? And if some of the Best times you ever had was sitting listening to Ward and Chris yammer on... well, you need to get out more often.
The Great Nippulini: body piercer, Guinness World Record holder, blacksmith and man with The World's Strongest Nipples! Does the WORLD care? We shall see...
http://www.greatnippulini.com
The Curator of the Unusual
View Profile
Inner circle
Tampa FL
1399 Posts

Profile of The Curator of the Unusual
Yes and Yes,,,
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel

contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com
Todd Robbins
View Profile
V.I.P.
New York
2903 Posts

Profile of Todd Robbins
Quote:
On 2009-06-25 20:20, dpe666 wrote:
Have you ever wondered who the 1st person was who said, "Putting my hand in this animal trap sounds like a GOOD idea!" Or who thought, "I think I will eat this lightbulb today!" Or who said, "I want to shove this nail up my nose and see what happens!" Yes, this is my way of asking for some history. Smile


I can't say about the animal trap. The light bulb is an offshoot of the glass eating the fakirs have done for ions in India. Somewhere I have an article that includes a British soldier recounting seeing a fakir eating a pain of window glass. This was years before light bulbs.

And the origins of the nail in the nose is also lost. It too seems to have come from the fakirs. It would be interesting to look at all the reports of the Indian Juggler troupes that to England in the early part of the 19th Century and see is there is mention of the stunt. The stunt was part of the torture king/pain proof acts that played the dime museums and early traveling sideshows. Do a google search on Leo Kongee and you will see photos of how the stunt what I mean.

And there is a weird magic connection with this stunt. Back in the early part of the 20th Century, Theodore De Land, creator of the De Land Deck, sold a manuscript explaining how to do the stunt. And Louis Tannen (founder of Tannen's Magic Company) and One Armed McDonald (creator of McDonald's Aces) use to pitch the stunt as a magic trick! The would stick a small nail all the way into their nose and then pull it out of the back of their head. After the demo, they would sell a manuscript that explained how to do it! It beats the Svengali Deck and Wonder Mouse in my book!

The man credited with making the stunt into a stand alone act was the great Melvin Burkhart. It's a long story that I wrote up on my Confessions of Glass Eater blog. By the way, though Melvin was doing the act in 1929, I don't think he did it that often. It was too gruesome to put into most sideshows of the time. I believe that it was when Melvin was working for Harry Lewiston that he started doing the act on a regular basis.

So there.
reese
View Profile
Inner circle
of Hell
1110 Posts

Profile of reese
I love credits. Seriously. What's come before matters to me, even if I don't use the material.

To go sideways for a moment...

has anyone seen the recently published photo/essay book on WOW?

The price is steep but I am curious. Too bad the publisher or author calls
WOW the last traveling tented sideshow ( they may even leave out the 'tented'part.. I don't remember )

I loved the "Carny" book by Virginia Hunter and am curious if this matches up....
Harley Newman
View Profile
Inner circle
5107 Posts

Profile of Harley Newman
Sticking things into bodily orifices was universal in the shaman business, as was playing with fire, and talking with spirits.

Glass was preceded by broken pots. BON was preceded by thorns.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

www.bladewalker.com
reese
View Profile
Inner circle
of Hell
1110 Posts

Profile of reese
Harley... do you have a reference for the ( shamans ) "sticking things into bodily orifices was universal" bit....

I know about inserting smoking objects into the mouth or other things elsewhere ( and y'all thinking of the sexual aspect... second thing the rest of us thought too )

BUT... besides things relating to sex & drugs, what did Shaman or Shawoman insert
into their holes?

Seriously, enquiring minds want to....

er... fergit.
Harley Newman
View Profile
Inner circle
5107 Posts

Profile of Harley Newman
I have about 9' of shelf space of anthropological and/or ethnographic works, and have read a lot more. I don't recall all the specific references, and I'm not interested in producing a scholarly work.

For good general background, read Mircea Eliade's book, "Shamanism". It's very academic, and a bit stilted, but gives exhaustive descriptions of ritual from many cultures. A much more readable book is "Shamanism", by Piers Vitebsky.

Induction of trance states was universal also.

Our generic lore says, for example, that sword swallowing originated with the fakirs of India. As I understand it, the fakirs were entry-level Sufis, a sect that's only about 1400 years old. The stunt is much older, and can be traced back into Dravidian culture of about 4000 years ago. Firewalking, and hooks in flesh, also came through that lineage, but also appeared in a lot of other locations from Africa to the Americas.

The Dravidians were probably the remnants of the Indus Valley civilization, which fell apart, not long after a series of comet-tail meteor impacts, going from Syria east, circa 2357 BC. There were nine years of dense cloud cover in the northern hemisphere (traceable through tree rings in Ireland), which would have destroyed the agricultural base for Indus. A number of significant cultures disappeared at that time, or underwent upheaval.

Indus valley civilization was possibly the most developed culture in the world at that time, with trade connections that stretched from Morocco to China. More trade seals from there, were found in other lands, than the other way round. They exported of all kinds of metal ores, and other things as well.

Parts of Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan had been lush, and turned to desert almost overnight. One of the tribes in that area, the Aryans, were the first people to use domesticated horses for fighting (everybody else used oxen), and were fierce mounted archers. When their homeland was devastated, they went looking for another place to live, killing or enslaving anybody in their way. Indus valley was one direction they went.

Over a couple of hundred year period, they moved from near the Urals, south through the Hindu Kush and across southern Asia. They conquered the area from the Deccan and Ganges plain, east through Iran and Iraq. I suspect they're the tribe that the Egyptians called "Hyksos".

You might enjoy reading Popul Vuh, the holy book of the K'iche Maya people. The Hero Twins, Hunaphu and Xbalanque, swallowed swords (well, probably sticks), did what we call tightrope walking, stilts, juggling, and cut-and-restored people. As babies, they slept, lying on thorns. There are several good translations on-line. For lyricism, I prefer the translation of Dennis Tedlock.

On book I haven't read, which I believe outlines a lot of the history, is "The Death and Resurrection Show", by Rogan P. Taylor. It's priced a bit above what I want to pay for a book.

My starting point for a lot of it, are some of my uncle's written works. He was a plant explorer, who lived for a number of years, with a tribe of folks who'd just stopped headhunting.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

www.bladewalker.com
Todd Robbins
View Profile
V.I.P.
New York
2903 Posts

Profile of Todd Robbins
When I state that much of sideshow performance material comes fron Indian Fakirs, I don't mean to imply that this is the origin of the feats. What I am referring to is the point of emergence into Western culture. The British rule of India was resposible for introducing many elements of Indian life to England and then the rest of Europe and the US, including performance by the Fakirs and the Jadoo Wallahs or Indian Jugglers. There were many reports of these stunt being performed earlier and in other parts of the world, but British contact with the Indian versions of these stunt did a great deal to expedite the assimilation of this kind of performance in our part of the globe.
thegreatnippulini
View Profile
Inner circle
of Hell because I've made
2589 Posts

Profile of thegreatnippulini
D'allah hoon, Todd.
The Great Nippulini: body piercer, Guinness World Record holder, blacksmith and man with The World's Strongest Nipples! Does the WORLD care? We shall see...
http://www.greatnippulini.com
Kondini
View Profile
Inner circle
3607 Posts

Profile of Kondini
Not got time to elaborate here but the Indian silk run planted the Romanies (Real Gypsies) All over the place,,,dropping off the shamenistic stunts that they developed on the way.

Jonny Eagle , the last of the Romany sideshow entertainers spent many, many months with me explaining the history to many of the stunts dropped off here,,,,hundreds of years ago.

My notebooks and audio tapes by the dozen from our time together explain their history (Much of it in their own tongue) Which off shot from the Indian language,,,to decipher the lingo resulted in a fat book of pro`s with umpteen meanings per each word ie chavvies >>> Child >> Children >> Your child >> My Child etc etc.

The stunts carried down through the families to this day remain as they were,,,hence Eagles act never changed, never updated,,,Tradition.

I will shut up !!!
Harley Newman
View Profile
Inner circle
5107 Posts

Profile of Harley Newman
I would love to see that! Might you transcribe, publish, or otherwise make them available?
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

www.bladewalker.com
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Believe it or not... » » Hmmmm.... (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.31 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL