|
|
Go to page 1~2 [Next] | ||||||||||
mrlavaboy New user Indpls 94 Posts |
I just read a thread about coin tips that involved a lot of heat...I am curious and would really like to know some good tips. I am trying to be a student of magic. I have dabbled for over 12 years, but coins are something I want to get into. I don't care as much for card magic (just my opinion), although I do some. I am workingon technique for coins and would like some tips on what you think A new student to coins should focus on.
I have Bobo on order and I vist the coin purse and coin vanish sites religiously. I am all ears. Thanks for the help. andy PS I have a S&S, Johnson Hopping Half, a 3 in one coin, bent quarter (I made my own) and a couple other gaffs. |
|||||||||
youngdanf New user 45 Posts |
I would say to practice in front of the mirror. You can see and correct a lot of mistakes that way.
|
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
honestly...
1) Know how you want your routines to look. 2) Catch yourself moving and doing things the way YOU do, like how you hold your hands at rest. Use a video camera for a few hours and look at how you move etc. 3) Try to be clear about what the 'story' is supposed to be and make every effort to make what is 'supposed to be' EVIDENT to the audience. 4) Remember, it's for the audience Hope this helps -Jonathan
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
mrlavaboy New user Indpls 94 Posts |
Great advice so far. I appreciate it and would love to hear more. I keep a three ring binder with tons of stuff in it. I try to look at in during down time at home, work, when traveling it is in my jeep, etc. I will be adding a section on coin magic tips very soon.
thanks, andy |
|||||||||
James Harrison Special user Ontario, Canada 762 Posts |
Andy- I fyou have a vcr, or dvd player, then I suggest getting David Roth.
Some stuff you may not agree with, but his technique has god fearing powers. The first three tapes are great for info on basic techniques on coin magic. Also David Stone's work is incredible, for starting out, get his first coin magic tape, great ideas for beginners to work with. Make sure you practice the routine about a million times before showing it to someone, and make sure that someone is a friend with an honest opinion. When you go to the magic shop, you get a lot of people who will be scared to give you an honest opinion, make sure you find someone who isn't. |
|||||||||
carlb New user Seattle 77 Posts |
These are all great tips, particularly the "study your movements" recommendation. I would suggest that when learning a new move, always start by doing the move "for real" I mean if you are supposed to pick up the coin from the left hand, do just that. Pick up the coin, watch yourself pick up the coin, and I don't mean "do the move but actually pick up the coin" I mean put a coin in your hand and pick it up. Modify whatever move it is you are learning to resemble the actual action as much as possible.
Also, routining (and this is David Roth's supreme strength apart form beautiful technique) - strive for moveless routines. Every motion should have a purpose in the eyes of the audience. There should be no extra pass, transfer, or fist clench that isn't explained by some logical action apparent to the audience. Study Roth for this, he is a master. Also - this is a big one - slow down. Remember that your are doing magic. I still do my coins across routines too dang fast - remember that each coin passing from hand to hand is a frickin' miracle! Take time with your revelations, use grace in your movements, and allow the audience to absorb the beauty and wonder of the effect. |
|||||||||
Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Excellence in technique is a prerequisite - you can't be a magician if you can't do magic!
Study theater - if you don't know how, ask someone who does... Don't beat people up with your magic - it spoils it for everyone... You can't do it all - look at the great actors, they have help - writers, directors, lights, sound, make-up, prop men, AND other actors. All that for a 22 minute sit-com! Don't re-invent the wheel... Don't assume that because everyone says it's great, it's great... Define your performance philosophy, then find tricks that fit it... Don't try to force something to work that doesn't... Find a mentor, he will change your life! Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
|
|||||||||
mrlavaboy New user Indpls 94 Posts |
Thanks for the tips. It is appreciated and not going on deaf ears. Most of the guys I know in Indy are not coin guys. They do kids, cards, stage, etc. I dabble i several fields, but have a genuine love for the art of coin magic. I haven't had a great deal of opportunity to see much of it. I appreciate the DVD recommends. I will be purchasing several soon. I have looked into getting Ammar's Coin DVD. Any thoughts on it?
andy |
|||||||||
Andrew E. Miller Inner circle Southern California 1428 Posts |
Sounds like me as far as your interests. I too, am not fond of cards. My best advice would be this.
Read the Bobo book from cover to cover and study it intensely. Master all the sleights and learn the effects. Practice them in front of a mirror. Practice them until they are perfect. I mean perfect. Don't skip something because you think you cannot do it. Get it so you can do it. And then master it. I mean practice until you hate the tricks. This may take some time, but I believe it is the best way to give yourself a good solid foundation in coin magic. You cannot build without a solid foundation of course. Study and practice. When you have done that, there are more advanced things to move onto such as David Roth's book "expert Coin Magic" or Richard Kaufman's book "Coin Magic." If you have this foundation I speak of you will find that when learning and reading the effects in those past two books I named that you will learn them faster, easier, and they will look better. You just have to make good habits and stick with it. Hope that helps you some, Andrew |
|||||||||
Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
Don't expect to find great effects in Roth's books. I am going to take a lot of heat for this but, I think all(and I do mean all) his effects are boring. I dare not show any of his routines to lay crowd for the fear of them falling a sleep. Please, don't bash me to much because I talked to someone else that thought the same way.
BTW, Andrew has really good advice on how to learn. If you find your-self a really skilled card man, coins should come easy. Lee |
|||||||||
Andrew E. Miller Inner circle Southern California 1428 Posts |
Lee, don't worry. I didn't care much for the effects in Roth's book either, but I took a few of them that I liked the handling of and made them my own. I made up patter and changed the handlign to fit me. That is what you should be doing. There is also a lot to learn from Roth's thinking if you don't care for the way he does the effects.
Andrew |
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Yes, better to get through the 'quaint' stuff while you are young and resiliant. The 'good' stuff is very much more difficult and less forgiving. Bobo did make an amusing read one term in High School. Fortunatly there was no 'Roth' book at the time and so it was off to find copies of the Downs and even older books from there. I just happened to find some of the Ramsay stuff in the Lincoln Center library in the mid 1970s. It made so much more sense after reading DeCremps and Conus ...
However, the few gems in Bobo's book are timeless. The historical word-pictures of some of the greats are very helpful to all who wish to entertain with coins. Does anyone wear a jacket? carry a hankerchief? wear a hat? very tough to adapt that kind of formal-restrained oafishness to some of todays circumstances. That's what motivated so much of what folks are calling the 'good' stuff. Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
DreamBig Regular user 144 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-27 20:19, pyro_magic wrote: Yeah! I think David Letterman was falling asleep when Roth was showing him magic when he had him on the show. I couldn't disagree more. Different Strokes! |
|||||||||
Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-27 23:30, macruz wrote: Well he sure wasn't watching Roth. Lee |
|||||||||
dmk_kirkland Loyal user 256 Posts |
JonTown, can you elaborate on what made more sense reading DeCremps (DeCamps??) and Conus? What were you reading?
Cheers,
David |
|||||||||
Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Word of caution:
Although I take Andrew's post as an admonition to learn the fundamentals before moving on, and that's cerainly not something any of us will disagree with, I think it's an overstatement to suggest that you learn, let alone master, everything in MCM. (i.e. "Bobo's") We have learned quite a lot about coin magic since the time MCM was published. Some of the techniques, and certainly some of the underlying strategies, are generally accepted as wrong today. The most obvious of these is inherent in the separate chapter on "vanishes", most of which is concerned with descriptions of false transfers, not vanishes. This is not just a matter of semmantics. One of the most common problems I see in fledgling coin men is the belief (spoken or unspoken) that a false transfer IS a vanish. As I have preached before, the vanish starts AFTER the false transfer is completed. Failure to understand the difference is what confines many early performances of coin "magic" to a series of hurried moves, which are at best, momentarily deceptive. Also, any time you see a performer announce that he's going to vanish a coin, then pause, then silently perform a false transfer, then look up at the audience, then show his hand empty, then wonder why he's not fooling anyone, this is what he doesn't understand. Second, some of the false transfers in MCM are laughable. The "Over the Top" vanish immediately comes to mind. I can't think of a more unnatural way to perform the simple act of putting a coin in your hand. This entire procedure is so suspicious, Kainoa made it into a Spider vanish. There, it fits perfectly. A lot of the "tunnel" false placements seem similarly misguided, although one could imagine a few situations where they might be of use. Others have noted the frequent suggestion in MCM that you should use a different false transfer each time in a series of "vanishes" in order to avoid being caught. Of course, this flies in the face of most theories of naturalness, and the idea that the false transfer is something that we'd rather the audience forgot. The approach in MCM places a spotlight on something we should be trying to hide. All that being said, the student should at least try everything on for size. Some of the silly ideas in there only seem silly. Knowing the difference can be a matter of experience. It helps to have a mentor, but failing that, try things out in private and try to see it from the audience's point of view. The material in MCM is mostly useable as is, and almost entirely worthwhile with a little thought. But don't leave out the thought. Rather than a "bible", I suggest you regard it as a workbook.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
|
|||||||||
Andrew E. Miller Inner circle Southern California 1428 Posts |
Curtis I will admit that you are right. Not everything is physcially possible for everyone or is too advanced. My bad.
Andrew |
|||||||||
gocall911 Loyal user Salem, VA 247 Posts |
Ammar's has some great videos on coin magic.
You should try to learn coin effects that can be done with out any gaffs (at lest at first). Once you learn a few moves do them every chance you get. No matter where you are! Also be sure to watch the angles!
"Use your head." ~Dai Vernon~
|
|||||||||
Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts |
Andy,
I would recommend an eclectic approach: 1. Obtain a basic coin book like Bobo and a newer classic such as Kaufmann's Coin Magic and use them as reference books or "workbooks" as Curtis mentioned 2. Obtain an intoductory video on coin magic such as Ammar's series. See the moves being done correctly and how they are woven into a magical effect. 3. If possible, find a mentor who can provide guidance helping you learn what is important and giving you positive and negative feedback. 4. Practice in front of a mirror. Once you learn the move or routine practice without the mirror because when you actually perform the mirror won't be there. If possible, video your moves and routines and study them critically. 5. Slowly build a repertoir of effects that you can confidently perform. |
|||||||||
mrlavaboy New user Indpls 94 Posts |
Count and others thanks for all the great advice. I am trying to absorb it all as best as I can right now. While I work I work on my classic palm. I spend a good bit of time at a desk and on the phone. I practice palming while doing the mindless stuff...although I have a bit of trouble palming while typing...lol.
Once again I appreciate the tips. I am in search of a mentor. andy |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Coin Tips Revisited (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page 1~2 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |