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RobertBloor
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Quote:
On 2009-06-29 17:16, Chance wrote:
You've got nothing to lose except your diginity. Sorry, too late.


Guess that still leaves me two steps ahead of you bud. Heheh

Listen, you're the one arguing constitutionality. I've never said anything was or wasn't the case.

What I said was I don't understand the purpose of trying to get booked and paid by a fair, getting told no, and then showing up anyway.

That's just flat out unprofessional...and desperate.

You were the one "bloviating" about free speech, the Constitution and apparently thinking fair performers like me see you as some sort of competition.

Here's a newsflash for you...I get paid a fee for my fair shows, I don't give two nuts if you show up and pass the hat.

Go for it.
If you get arrested I could care less.
If you sue the government for infringing on your rights...so be it.

I just think it's a joke to get told no by a festival organizer and then show up anyway.

But go ahead and show up to fairs and work for free. Get arrested, don't get arrested I could care less.

-Robert
Sent via a Blackberry device.
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Chance
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What, like people can't remember what you said just 4 posts back, like this:

"Required by law? hahah Keep telling yourself that. Since you've studied and are so amazingly educated, by all means go ahead and give us a statute rather than just running your mouth."

Now all the sudden you're backpedaling, trying to play like you never made those comments. I call you out for ten grand and all you can say is that you were misunderstood. Which would be funny if it weren't so um, what's the word, DESPERATE sounding. Yeah, that's it: DESPERATE. And unprofessional.

You work festivals. Good for you! You're not alone here I assure you! But if you're not a busker at all then why are you here in the first place? Just looking in on us little people or something? Do you honestly think buskers are beneith you? Because that's sure the vibe you're putting off today.

So in closing you're not a busker but you spend half your day here, and you couldn't care less about things constitutional but you spend the other half arguing law with me. (Law you've never studied, but that's for another day.)
RobertBloor
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Yep I said that in response to your assesment that it is required by law that a state fair must give you a FREE space if you ask for it.

You still have not cited a statute or court precedant.

Again... YOU brought it up. Not me. Then you went off half-cocked about bets and competition and what not.

I stand by my original post that being told no and showing up anyway is unprofessional.

I know you want to continue ranting about your Constitutional rights and you can go right ahead. There's probably no one on the board who is a more die-hard Libertarian than I am.

BTW...those rights you said buskers have are the same rights as anyone else. You're not anymore special than I am. Sad isn't it?
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-06-29 08:12, Chance wrote:

After 3 shows a guy approached me. He asks me how come I'm not working inside the festival boundries. I say it's because I was refused this year due to overbooking. He asks do I know the busking co-ordinator. I say sure, he's a friend of mine, but he still had no extra room for me this year. The guy says, well I'm your friends boss. I'm the festival promoter.

Did any of this cause trouble for your friend the busking co-ordinator? I mean, did the promoter lose faith in your friend's ability to book and co-ordinate?
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Chance
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Not that I'm aware of. I got 3 great written references from that gig, including from my friend.

Yes I said that, but not from out of the blue. It was in direct response to this comment:

Quote:
I suppose if you guys are talking strictly open festivals that are on public property, that's one thing. But I've seen state fairs and gates/paid admission festivals crashed before and that indeed reeks of desperation.

So I'll meet you half way on the public property/no-gate festival.

According to you there isn't any precedent to show in the first place. A fact which I challenged you on. Again, if you were to actually study half as much as you bloviate then we wouldn't be having these discussions. It's not my job to spoon feed you what you should already know. You want what I know then step up to the plate and challenge me. Ten large. Put up or shut up.
RobertBloor
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You know what, I just did some research through some past circuit court rulings. I've spent 90 minutes digging through stuff. Not a lot of time but I've got news for you...

...you're right. I apologize for suggesting that working for free after you've been told you're not wanted reeks of desperation.

You certainly do know what you're talking about. The law is clear and you are correct...you can work for free anywhere you want in this country.

Rock on.

Next time a fair offers to pay me $600 or $700 a day I'm going to refuse, wave the Constitution around, talk about court precedent and demand they give me a spot and let me work for free.

I really learned something here today.

*rolls eyes*
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
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Chance
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Actually no, you haven't. But I know several readers that have at your expense.
ray raymond
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[quote]On 2009-06-29 15:43, RobertBloor wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-06-29 14:04, Chance wrote:
Maybe so, but you would have been on rotation with everyone else. The promoter made sure I got a plum space all to myself. Kinda puts on it's head the idea that promoters hate this kind of thing, doesn't it? And being the only pic in the Ottawa Sun was just icing on the cake. In reality, the people who hate it most are people like you who can't stand the thought of serious competition.

And for your information, state or county fairs ARE public events, and are required by law to provide proper FREE space for a busker when notified, even when a gate fee is charged. You'd know all this stuff if you studied half as much as you bloviate.

I've said it before: we buskers have AMAZING rights that most of us know nothing about, and the government generally wants it to stay that way. Education is the best thing we can do, even if it only happens in some tiny corner of the internet called The Sidewalk Shuffle.


Chance,

Serious competition? haha What do you make on a good hat pass? $100 $150? If you were serious competition you'd be making $7,000.00 - $10,000.00 or more to work a fair rather than passing the hat for penance.

Required by law? hahah Keep telling yourself that. Since you've studied and are so amazingly educated, by all means go ahead and give us a statute rather than just running your mouth.

Come on out to the New Mexico State Fair and pass the hat. I dare you. We can finish discussing bloviating after you are criminally trespassed from the property by NM State Police.

Robert
[/quote

$600-$700, a little while ago it was $7,000 -$10,000 to even be competitive. I am sorry robert I thought you were a busker. which is a whole art form to itself. To be perfecly clear I HAVE NEVER CRASHED A FESTIVAL THAT I HAVE UNSUCCESSFULLY TRIED TO BOOK. it would be smarter to call the festival committe and say " I am a complete moron" Also to be perfectly fair $600-$700 by the hat is not that hard to do. Any successful street performer can out entertain any other type of performer any day of the week.

Also robert this thread is about offering help on the subject of crashing festivals.]
if this is a foreign concept, you should not have interjected.
RobertBloor
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Ray,

Sorry if I was unclear.

The first was for the entire fair, the second was a day rate. That's my fault.

As for crashing festivals...I still say unprofessional and desperate. If that offends some folks send me some nasty messages like I've already gotten.

Otherwise...whatever.
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EVILDAN
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Okay, I get it. Bloor feels crashing festivals is unprofessional and desperate. We all now know that his fee schedule commands thousands of dollars.

And yet...nobody seems to give a ***.

So, let's get back to the topic at hand...crashing festivals.
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Bill Nuvo
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As a busker, a festival performer and as a festival producer...I see all sides here. In fact, one of the festivals I am producing now is one I crashed before! In the same token however, crashing a festival you have been turned down from (for whatever reason, budget...etc) is bad karma in my opinion. At this one festival too, though we do have spots open for those who want to crash. As a festival performer, I would much rather be paid a full sum instead of busking, just for the sure paycheque of it all.

The one thing I don't understand with this whole thread is, some of the arrogance spouted here from all sides.
RobertBloor
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Quote:
On 2009-06-29 23:26, EVILDAN wrote:
Okay, I get it. Bloor feels crashing festivals is unprofessional and desperate. We all now know that his fee schedule commands thousands of dollars.

And yet...nobody seems to give a ***.

So, let's get back to the topic at hand...crashing festivals.


I thought this was a discussion. Topic posted. I replied. And Chance got his panties in a twit because I had the audacity to suggest that crashing was unprofessional. Of course he went of a Constitutional rant.

Whether you give a **** or not is of no concern. Opinions were asked for, I gave mine and sadly had to defend it against the ACLU.

My mistake straight through. I should know better than to give an opinion contrary to Chance's.

That said - crashing festivals - enjoy. Knock yourselves out. Please.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
Kondini
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You must have a very odd way of presenting Festivals in the US !!! No way would any of these attitudes survive over here.

For a factual method of crashing !!! Ask Mario to put his thoughts forward.

Why ? Cos he "crashed" a Festival that I was working only a few weeks ago (Cambridge) I think his method was the correct and proffessional way to handle this and even ended up with the bosses asking me for his details. This puts him in a win-win situation.

Ken.
TheGiz
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My problem is: I'm new to town. I see a festival in the Thursday night paper for the upcoming weekend. There is no time to get booked or ask permission. I'll just take my chances and show up. The worst they can do is ask me to leave. I just won't return to their little closed minded fair next year.
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MagiCol
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TheGiz, I can see your problem in getting booked or asking permission. Personally, if I got turned down I reckon I would get their contact details ready for a next time. However, the person to contact may change from one year to the next, leaving the same problem.
If a person was unhappy about crashing a festival, it might work out that s/he could station themselves, say, 50 feet from the entrance-way and perform there. Presenting a kind of publicity for what's going on inside.
The presentation makes the magic.
Paddy
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Quote:
On 2009-06-29 15:43, RobertBloor wrote:
...Serious competition? haha What do you make on a good hat pass? $100 $150? If you were serious competition you'd be making $7,000.00 - $10,000.00 or more to work a fair rather than passing the hat for penance...

Robert

You are correct about making $100 on a hat pass. What you forget is I do 4 to 6 shows an hour and get $75 to $150 each show Which is between $2400 (assuming all small hats) to $14,400 (all maximum hats) a DAY.

that's the difference between having the balls to be a busker where if I do not entertain I don't eat so every show has to be the best.

Paddy
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RiffRaff
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$14,400/$150= 96 shows.
Assuming 6 shows per hour, that's 16 hours.
Paddy, not only are you completely delusional, but you can't even do math!
Paddy
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A case of fat fingers, sorry. it is 4800 a day for 150/show, 4shows/hour, 8 hours/day. I should have proofread before I hit the send button and we can't make edits once we send. I can do the math just can't type worth a crap
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RiffRaff
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Paddy, don't insult my intelligence; I know the difference between fat fingers and a long nose.
fireperformer911
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TheNightBringer89

I have crashed festival and been paid to perform at festivals. In my opinion its better to be hired to be there but do what you must to live.

Paddy

Your post is DANGEROUS and let me explain why.

1. Impressible people may believe your $ numbers and quit there job or school to crash festivals so they can make $4800 a day.

2. Performers who have paid their dues to develop a show that can be booked at festival will be battling performers who have not developed a show that will be good for audience and the event.

3. Performers who are starting out will believe your DISNEY LAND MONEY numbers and will get discouraged and give up performing because they believe they are not good enough.

Thanks Shel
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