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Brane
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This is very much like my own variation of Genius John Riggs 'They Hell Fire' routine.
My motivation was perhaps a bit different: I wanted to get someone - one on one - to experience a series of very particular focused emotions - in a particular order - to try and 'engineer' the participants final cumulative emotional state.
An example might be:
Remember - and feel - a time when they were very calm and relaxed. Then they chose a card that 'feels' right to them.
Next: Relive feeling a response to a BEAUTIFUL thing, photo, music, sunset, etc., and chose a card that seems to match that feeling.
Then focus on remembering and feeling a strong past response to something very, very funny. Chose a card again.
Then focus on feelings from being very happy about some incident . . .etc.
THAT sort of concept.

Of course they are identifying each card that is similarly marked with the appropriate emotional words. In the end of the routine . . . well, you know that!
But the idea was REALLY the sum total of the process along the way: Their final emotional state.
The revelation of their amazing success with the sensing of the designated cards was a goad to also feel amazed, intrigued, successful, impressed and so on.

Surely this described Emotional Imprint routine would serve the same function, although as has been pointed out, I'm not sure where there is any obvious advantage over John's routine. Is it technically easier? Something else that I'm not understanding?

Is the hidden method in Emotional Imprints different enough from the Riggs method that, were you to follow up the Riggs routine with what appears to be the same process for a second person nearby, would it prevent the participants/ observers from working out a consistent method?
Brane
Nathaniel
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I have send a free copy of Emotional Imprints to Joshua Quinn, who asked about similarities and differences between ´Emotional Imprints´ and ´They Hell Fire´ first.

I asked him to compare the effects and to clear things up here in the thread. He will certainly post his thoughts soon! Hope that helps!



Best,
Nathaniel
"Stories are told to kids to make them sleep, and are told to adults to wake them up" (Jorge Bucay)

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G.
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This sounds very good, I will grab a copy today!!
Bill Cushman
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I have way too much of Rigg's material to start looking thru it to find "They Hell Fire" Would someone be so kind as to give me the source? Thanks in advance.
Magical Dimensions
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Quote:
On 2009-07-03 11:48, Bill Cushman wrote:
I have way too much of Rigg's material to start looking thru it to find "They Hell Fire" Would someone be so kind as to give me the source? Thanks in advance.



Bill,

John Riggs-- UNCHAINED! (DVD)



Best
Ray
Joshua Quinn
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For some time now, one of my favorite things to do has been a sort of Frankenstein routine that I put together using elements of John Riggs' "They Hell Fire," Ron Martin's version of the same effect (which I believe is unpublished), and Alan Strydom's "Creating impact." All three of those routines involve a spectator correctly identifying which emotion is written on each of several different business cards, while avoiding the one card that's either negative or emotionless. Since Emotional Imprints shares that plot, it seemed fair to wonder what it might offer that the others don't, and vice-versa. Nathaniel was kind enough to send me a copy of Emotional Imprints in response to this query, with the request that I post my thoughts for others who might have the same question. So here goes...

I'll start by saying that Emotional Imprints (which I'll refer to as EI from here out) does what it says on the tin; the effect goes down as described, it's not technically demanding, and performed well, it can leave a very strong impression. With that established, the main differences between it and the others I mentioned lie in the specifics of the handling, and the presentation. I'll discuss both aspects in turn.

One of the things I like about They Hell Fire (THF from here out) is how remarkably clean, simple and well-justified the handling is. The handling of EI, while it's perfectly workable, seems a little bit less of all those things to me. Both effects involve very basic card moves, but EI requires more of them, and their motivation isn't quite as well covered as in THF. Mind you, they're still entirely capable of getting the job done, and if I had read EI without being aware of THF, I don't think I would have found any kind of fault with the handling. Both allow for a genuinely free choice of cards (which, it's worth noting, Creating Impact doesn't). EI requires a minor setup, but leaves you set to perform it again at the end (potentially important for walkaround or table-hopping). THF requires no setup and ends clean, although it requires a cleanup that could be easily done with EI as well. So overall, both are eminently workable and neither is radically better than the other, though personally I prefer the THF handling. And both offer better solutions (IMHO) than the equivalent portion of Creating Impact (CI from here out).

Comparing the presentations is tricky and probably of limited value, since hopefully people will be putting their own spin on these things anyway, but for what it's worth... Rigg's presentation of THF is brief and fairly bare-bones, and seems to be offered only to get the general point across, relying on the performer to flesh it out as best suits him/her. The presentation provided with EI is quite a bit longer and more involved, and is similar in feel to the presentation for CI. Personally I found the CI scripting to be a little more effective and concise, though of course that's purely a matter of taste. The nice thing is that both EI and CI go into detail about the rationale behind the scripting, which is useful for adapting it for one's own use. In truth, when it comes to powerful scripting, my personal feeling is that Ron Martin's version beats the pants off of any of them, and I hope he publishes it some day. (Actually, who am I kidding, I hope he never does.)

As long as I'm comparing the various effects, the other point to consider is pricing. EI is a single-effect PDF for $15. CI is also a "single effect" PDF, though the effect is actually a three-phase routine, of which the middle phase is equivalent in plot to EI. It sells for $22. (And I'll add that while neither of the other two phases offers anything groundbreaking in terms of method, the way they're all tied together to create a unified experience is very well-done.) Riggs' THF can be found in his book The Psychic Agenda, which costs $35 and includes about ten other effects, as well as numerous essays of interest to psychic entertainers. (And if you're wondering "Is the rest of the book any good?", then you're obviously not familiar with Mr. Riggs' material.)

In conclusion, Emotional Imprints is good stuff. It's similar to other, previously available good stuff. I'd be hard pressed to categorically recommend any of said stuff over any other, since it comes down to one's own tastes and requirements. But I hope my comments have helped make such a decision easier, and I thank Nathaniel for the opportunity to offer them.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
Nathaniel
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Thanks for taken the time sharing your thoughts! I hope that clears up the questions.

Any further questions? please don't hesitate to contact me.
"Stories are told to kids to make them sleep, and are told to adults to wake them up" (Jorge Bucay)

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Matthew Townsend
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Are you allergic to shellfish??

Sorry, I'm at work and very bored.

Peace & Love

Matt
Bill Cushman
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OK, I went and checked out They Hell Fire and Creating Impact. First off, I am an unabashed John Riggs fan and can't believe I forgot where to find this effect, especially given two sources!

One correction regarding Joshua's description of THF; it does require a prior set up, very similar to EI. I absolutely agree with Joshua on the mechanics involved with each version and it took me a while to be comfortable with one "step" in EI but as Joshua explains, isn't really a problem and once I found the motivation, something very important to me, any issues disappeared.

The method in CI is entirely different and Joshua points out what some might consider as an inferiority in terms of true free choice. However, Alan's method certainly does a great job in creating that illusion.

Sticking with method for a moment and placing all bias aside Smile, there are contributions from Andrew Gerard and myself that add some nice twists and logical disconnects. And, before I forget, there is something in EI that is done openly but is hidden in THF and CI. Not an unsurmountable loss, but I do like the openness in EI at this stage.

Putting aside all issues of pricing and what else you get with any of the three versions, we are left with presentation. And this is where I think EI takes the lead. Not that there is anything wrong with John or Alan's, it is just that in my opinion Nathaniel hit upon an element that both the others lack and as emotionally involving as all can be, takes it one level deeper.

In terms of pacing, as Joshua mentions, THF is a bit bare bones. Of course, it is expected that we will all offer our own interpretations but even with that in mind, I could see most people missing what I think makes EI stand out. And interestingly, in terms of being concise, I would place EI in the middle of THF and CI. In other words, “just right.”

Within limits, I'm all about the presentation. All three have a lot to offer in this area. I think Emotional Imprints offers a depth of emotional experience for the participant and audience that I see the other two as not quite reaching. For that aspect alone it certainly grabbed my interest and captivated my imagination.
psi-co
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Hi Everyone

I was browsing around and saw the ad for Nathaniel's Emotional Imprint, and decided to contact him with a view to a trade as the plot sounded very similar to my own Creating Impact.

After reading EI, and the very well reviewed comparisons on this thread, I have to say the only place I can really crit Nathaniel with EI is a lack of credit to John Riggs for "They Hell Fire". Those of you who have Creating Impact will note that I emailed John about "They Hell Fire", and included him in the credits, even though the methodology explained in CI is different.

Although the method I give in CI is different to THF, John's has always been my preferred method. Creating Impact was written as an exercise in meaningful presentation and how three known methodologies can be brought together in a very powerful routine invoking emotional responses.

As it stands, Nathaniel's Emotional Imprint is a wonderfully concise routine that in my opinion echoes Creating Impact and They Hell Fire, and has it's own unique charm. I'll definitely play around with it, and will probably end up using it for repeat performances of Creating Impact. Two or three methodologies are always better than one for repeat performances! Smile

All of us have our preferred way of doing something. When the motivation for a method is justified, it doesn't necessarily mean that one method is better than another. To each his own. Having said that, I'll add...

I like this. I'll use it. Thank you and well done Nathaniel.

Regards

Alan
bdekolta
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Just to keep things straight "They Hell Fire" is Cicardi's routine. John Riggs published his handling and credits Cicardi.
Nathaniel
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Thanks to Alan for the kind of words.

Even though I have much of John Riggs´s great work, I have to admit that I didn't know about ´They Hell Fire´ before someone mentioned it in this thread!...shame on me. Don't know how I could miss this!

Lack of credits is resolved, (Dr. Charles Scott aka Cicardi is also included) and
I emailed John Riggs about "Emotional Imprints".

Like Alan mentions, "to each his own". I think you can´t go wrong with any of this wonderful versions.



Btw.: What´s about a fused version, "Emotional Hell Impact" sounds not bad too ;-)
"Stories are told to kids to make them sleep, and are told to adults to wake them up" (Jorge Bucay)

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Anthony Jacquin
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Hi Nathaniel,

thanks for putting this out. I think it is excellent, so much flexibility. The other versions discussed also passed me by. I look forward to buying them if available because I will use this.

What sparked my interest was the idea of pushing people through a series of emotional states mentioned earlier in the thread. Now I have Emotional Imprints I can see how. If you know what you are doing with your language and how to use suggestion and revivification here you can of course sieze this moment in the effect and create some proper mental effects SmileBypass the hypnotic inductions and just start making suggestions to those who seem adept at following your suggestions. This is a big secret of good hypnotists. Just give suggestions. In this case revivify a state by suggesting they find a memory and step into it, into state and feel etc. Capture it in a word or phrase that you can then use to trigger it. Anchor it by touch if you are that way inclined? But don't tell me it's raining Docc:)

In this effect you can do that up to four times. There is loads you can do with this.

The touches by Bill Cushman and Andrew Gerard are excellent and absolutely tidy up the effect eliminating the small compromises in the original.

This is good value and highly flexible. It can be done with one person or upto 5. It resets. It uses business cards. It should be on it's way to you by now.

Anthony
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Chanku
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I completely agree with all those who say that this version is superior when it comes to presentation. This one really makes the effect personal and has a lot of scope to branch out in various directions. Thumbs up from me!
tmoca
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Sorry to revive an old thread, but can anyone tell me if there are only the 4 cards in play in this version of does it involve a stack of cards like in Riggs/Cicardi's?

Thanks
Nathaniel
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Hello tmoca,

in this version a stack of cards is involved too. Five of them are dealt to the table. Then the emotions are written down and so on...
Hope this helps!


Best,
Nathaniel
"Stories are told to kids to make them sleep, and are told to adults to wake them up" (Jorge Bucay)

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tmoca
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Quote:
On 2013-08-10 09:11, Nathaniel wrote:
Hello tmoca,

in this version a stack of cards is involved too. Five of them are dealt to the table. Then the emotions are written down and so on...
Hope this helps!


Best,
Nathaniel


Thanks! I picked it up the other day. Did a quick read though...went back and re-visited Rigg's performance...I have some thoughts on it....looking forward to seeing how it plays.
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