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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » Ellusionist decks (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Voldemort
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Quote:
On 2009-07-03 11:53, Fábio DeRose wrote:

@Voldemort:

Mind to share with us deeper opinions on why do you think that the Masters and the Ghosts are "garbage"? I've put a decent effot into making clear points, and I think you could use some more profound argumentation, too.


Sure.

They are too thick. It feels like your holding a deck and a half when the full deck is in grip. A DL feels and acts like a TL. The "UV500" finish degrades and feels like sandpaper if they sit for any amount of time. (Which is the same for all E decks). I bought 12 decks of these to try them out. I would expect for the amount I paid that they would be quality cards. They are not. In ALL of the decks, The printing was way off center and in a few of them SO FAR off center that the borders where almost touching the edge of the card.

Sorry, If these represent "Masters" then I think I'll stick to useing the common, regular, cheaper bikes. In my opinion there is nothing to be gained by useing the Masters decks. So why spend the money. I tried them and I gave them a chance. They suck. I'm to the point in which I can hold a deck of regular bikes and tell if I'm light or heavy by ONE card. The Masters screw up my feel and throw me off. Couple that with the poor quality, the price, and the fact that they don't faro worth a crap (Which is very important to me).... No contest.

Hope that helps clear up any problem you have with the... What was it... argumentation? (Is that a freaking word)?

V.

P.S. I never said the ghosts are garbage.
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Maestro
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I was happy with the ghosts, they are printed on thicker stock which makes them last a long time.
Fábio DeRose
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I never had problems using Masters', actually. I've got too many 808's and Bees to use for my own, so I don't really need them, but as for my past experiences...they lasted pretty much longer. I do use Ghosts sometimes, for my mentioned points.

General bottomline for anyone who hasn't tried, after all, is: Go and try for yourself. But keep a few bucks to spare on a few everyday decks, just in case.
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marty.sasaki
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If you think they are cool, just get them. Yes, they are more expensive, but if like them and use them, you will probably practice more, and perform more. That's good. You might find problems with them for performing certain sleights. I find that DL's look terrible after the deck has been worn a bit.

Having said that they can be great for certain effects. A Haunted Deck sometimes works better with a black deck, giving it a bit more mystery. In the right context, rising card is good too. You can play up the black absorbing energy that is released in the movement.
Marty Sasaki
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Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
Fábio DeRose
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Yes, I used to have a 'Magickal' segment on my stage show back in 2007. I used a BLack Tiger for a few effects, which was indeed a nice touch that actually made sense on the whole context.
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johndraws
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Quote:
On 2009-07-03 01:17, Shortelz wrote:
Hey guys I have a chance to get ellusionist decks. I really badly want the shadow master but I will
ask you guys first. Should I get ellusionist decks? If so what's the best


Buy them. They look great. I own several different Ellusionist decks. Some are better than others and some are personal prefrence. Yes, I prodominantly perform with regular bicycle decks...because they decent quality and cheaper. Not because lay people don't suspect anything. That is a magicians perception in todays world. When your moves are "that" good...someone usually will still suspect trick decks with regular bicycle cards. Don't kid yourselves. People know magic shops and their gaffs exist.There is a simple cure for that when using ANY deck. Hand out the deck. It eliminates any notion that it is anything but gimmiked. End of story.

If you think that...let me tell you there are so many different bicycle decks out there that it doesn't make a difference these days as far as clearing doubt of gimmiked decks. Go into any Wal- Mart and you can find pink backs, blue backs, red, Silver, clear plastic cards, White backs, Recycable green backs, Star Wars, Indiana Jones...and on and on. When it comes to chosing your cards..expiriment. Since they are NOT gimmicked decks you can hand them out to lay people anyway. Don't think like an old magician who is stuck in a time warp. Continue to test out whatever you want to use and learn from your achievements and mistakes. Experience is the best teacher...and experience is gained through making mistakes. The more cards you use...the better you will understand what works best and why. If nobody expirimented with different things....you would not come to know card magic as it is today.

Have fun and enjoy those custom items out there.
johndraws
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Quote:
On 2009-07-03 01:17, Shortelz wrote:
Hey guys I have a chance to get ellusionist decks. I really badly want the shadow master but I will
ask you guys first. Should I get ellusionist decks? If so what's the best


Buy them. They look great. I own several different Ellusionist decks. Some are better than others and some are personal prefrence. Yes, I prodominantly perform with regular bicycle decks...because they decent quality and cheaper. Not because lay people don't suspect anything. That is a magicians perception in todays world. When your moves are "that" good...someone usually will still suspect trick decks with regular bicycle cards. Don't kid yourselves. People know magic shops and their gaffs exist.There is a simple cure for that when using ANY deck. Hand out the deck. It eliminates any notion that it is anything but gimmiked. End of story.

If you think that...let me tell you there are so many different bicycle decks out there that it doesn't make a difference these days as far as clearing doubt of gimmiked decks. Go into any Wal- Mart and you can find pink backs, blue backs, red, Silver, clear plastic cards, White backs, Recycable green backs, Star Wars, Indiana Jones...and on and on. When it comes to chosing your cards..expiriment. Since they are NOT gimmicked decks you can hand them out to lay people anyway. Don't think like an old magician who is stuck in a time warp. Continue to test out whatever you want to use and learn from your achievements and mistakes. Experience is the best teacher...and experience is gained through making mistakes. The more cards you use...the better you will understand what works best and why. If nobody expirimented with different things....you would not come to know card magic as it is today.

Have fun and enjoy those custom items out there.
Steven Leung
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Quote:
On 2009-07-03 01:39, pepka wrote:
Depends which is more important, having 14 year old "street magicians" think you're cool, or having spectators wonder where you got your fancy cards. "Oh, you got them at a website that sells magic stuff huh, they're probably trick cards because I've never seen anything like that."


I agree with you.
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rklew64
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It's just freakin cards for cryin out loud.
Buy them all, they are fun to have and collect. I even picked up the new Raiders deck, as well as the Black Scorpion Deck, Black Spider deck and yes even the Magic Makers Black backed colored - All black decks.
You don't need a consensus or approval on what to buy in regards to cards, especially colored back cards.
Now getting opinions on gaff and gimmicked cards is way entirely different and opinions and advice does matter. I always look and defer to this forum for the vast amount of experience that everyone brings here. You'll learn eventually what you can and should be using for magic, your casual and serious routines. This is corny, but remember you never stop learning, and isn't about the journey not the destination.
This whole thread reminds me of fan boys at a Star Trek convention - jeez, can tribbles eat oatmeal?
disgruntledpuffin
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How are all you card collectors enjoying the BBM Karnival deck?
Any thoughts?

Oh, and for my two cents on the whole thing, I like the E decks, but League Back bikes take the prize for me. Love the thin stock!

Jack.
Fábio DeRose
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I've got a few Karnivals, both Midnight (Whose back design is just beautiful) and the regular, white one.

Their stock is pretty much the same as a 808 Bike on the first days. I've been testing this deck for heavy training, and after a couple of weeks or so the cards are sticking to each other, far moe often than it would happen on a 808 deck.

My bottomline for Karnivals is that they look good, feel nice and don't last really long. Not really worth the price, but nie addition to my large collection.

As for white decks, I'll stick to the Ghosts.
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danielrmk
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Well, I remember when the Ghost deck was realeased, I ordered a 3 pack with a gaff deck and... well nothing, I used it 2 times, and that's it, the cards are really hard to identify for the spectators... and the gaff cards are gaffs, they know they are special magic cards, even more when they are part of a novelty deck.
rklew64
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Karnivals are fun to have. Also Theory 11's Propaganda deck, Dan Sperry's Crimson are nice. I'll mention it here since I haven't seen it here, Bicycle prints a black backed deck regular rider back 808. I only have seen it sold paired with the red backed deck in a 4 pack, 2 colors each. And last but not least the full black back and front Tally Ho deck, Viper. and yes those are E distributed but still from USPCC.
Fábio DeRose
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Propagandas look pretty cool, and feel nice out of the box. I haven't tried them for extended periods, though. I'd nevr feel like presenting Magic with these decks, by the way.
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cvwtzhaar
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In my opinion, the fancy Ellusionist decks are cool for collecting and flourishing pourposes. For performing the decks don't look natural. They look a little "Gimmicky" to me, though I do think they look cool...

I don't mind a fancy back design, just as long as the faces are look regular, like the Karnival deck. Smile Smile
entermagic
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My opinion these deck are wonderful, but not to perform a magic trick, because the layman think that are a gaffed deck.

M.P.
johndraws
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So you people that prefer not to use them because you say lay people think they are trick decks.....let me ask you this. Do they suspect they are trick decks before you do the effect or after? Also....have you ever had anyone suspect a regular deck was a trick deck?

I personally have had people think the bicycle deck cards were trick cards as well...so really there was absolutely no reason to negate a beautiful deck of cards because of suspicion. Simply hand the cards out at the beginning (or end)....their doubts will be destroyed.
Again with the amount of different colored cards these days that are bicycle....it is not UNUSUAL to have a different colored set of cards.

It has been my experience that the "lay people" suspecting a trick deck, even when one is NOT used is just as common these days with ordinary official cards.

Yes I perform reguarly for diverse audiences.
Maloney
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Quote:
On 2009-07-31 08:51, johndraws wrote:
So you people that prefer not to use them because you say lay people think they are trick decks.....let me ask you this. Do they suspect they are trick decks before you do the effect or after? Also....have you ever had anyone suspect a regular deck was a trick deck?

I personally have had people think the bicycle deck cards were trick cards as well...so really there was absolutely no reason to negate a beautiful deck of cards because of suspicion. Simply hand the cards out at the beginning (or end)....their doubts will be destroyed.
Again with the amount of different colored cards these days that are bicycle....it is not UNUSUAL to have a different colored set of cards.

It has been my experience that the "lay people" suspecting a trick deck, even when one is NOT used is just as common these days with ordinary official cards.

Yes I perform reguarly for diverse audiences.


Bicylcle cards are commom to us as magicians. Lay people have probably never seen a deck of bikes before in thier life. A lot of people use old, non-durable cards when playing poker for fun, or any other type of card game. They do not buy bicycles to use while playing cards.
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johndraws
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Quote:
On 2009-07-31 09:52, Maloney wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-07-31 08:51, johndraws wrote:
So you people that prefer not to use them because you say lay people think they are trick decks.....let me ask you this. Do they suspect they are trick decks before you do the effect or after? Also....have you ever had anyone suspect a regular deck was a trick deck?

I personally have had people think the bicycle deck cards were trick cards as well...so really there was absolutely no reason to negate a beautiful deck of cards because of suspicion. Simply hand the cards out at the beginning (or end)....their doubts will be destroyed.
Again with the amount of different colored cards these days that are bicycle....it is not UNUSUAL to have a different colored set of cards.

It has been my experience that the "lay people" suspecting a trick deck, even when one is NOT used is just as common these days with ordinary official cards.

Yes I perform reguarly for diverse audiences.


Bicylcle cards are commom to us as magicians. Lay people have probably never seen a deck of bikes before in thier life. A lot of people use old, non-durable cards when playing poker for fun, or any other type of card game. They do not buy bicycles to use while playing cards.


I think most people recognize bicycle cards as ordinary....I don't believe I have ever heard anyone call them buy name...yet I never asked. I doubt they "never seen" them since that is by and large what Wal-Mart carries. They even have them in the front check out lanes. However they do come in all different colors. Silver, White, blue, red, green, pink....etc. So...since you are in agreeance with what we are saying...this reinforces the notion that you should use what you like and never mind the thought that automatically using a custom deck with create suspicion.
MickeyPainless
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I don't remember EVER playing in a casual Friday night poker game (read, total amateur hack players) where the cards were not Bikes or Hoyles and on occasion Bee's! More serious home games are usually Bee's or Bikes!

I agree with John, the standard cards in convenience stores like 7-11 or Circle K are Bicycle Rider Backs! Walmart and Target and almost every large grocery chain carry Bikes at the check out counter! Some of the off beat mini marts or liquor stores may carry Streamlines or Aviator but usually Bikes or Hoyle!

I've never been questioned about the cards I use in magic regardless of make or model! When I do a trick, I'm the one in question not the cards!

I also don't feel the need to hand out my deck or over prove anything! I have no problem using a borrowed deck either!

Don't run if ya ain't bein chased!

MMc
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