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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts |
I posted this on another thread and I think it should be here as well
http://qik.com/video/2024037 12 min before the end to 8 min before the end This is a Short version done for Tim Armstrong (AOL's CEO) and Yossi Vardi (ICQ founder). It was done in the garagegeeks: a real Garage where many young startups are meeting to share ideas They are all very smart and I work for many of the companies they started There are also many VC's in the audience looking for the next big thing. All "mageeks" in the Café are most welcome to watch the rest of the video Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
Well done Lior!
It just goes to prove...that even an audience of very intellegent geeks can be 'entertained' with a fast paced fun Magic Square presentation. Also,as you stated in another thread:[I paraphrase]"Only performers are concerned about the disparity or spread of the numbers." Regular folks don't care. Rich |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts |
Hi Rich
Thanks I said " only magicians are concerned..." I Think tha spreading the numbers is good but not that important. But this is only my opinion Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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Bill Cushman Inner circle Florida 2876 Posts |
Lior that was great! Along with your talent of course, I think that your obvious enthusiasm for the effect is a huge factor in why the oft neglected most basic version played so well. Thanks for sharing.
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4697 Posts |
I think that performers who use this particular method may think they're fooling their audiences, but are in fact, only fooling themselves.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts |
I am using it since 1995.
Didn't know it is so bad. I will change the method. Starting tonight. I will also tell Marc Salem , Bill Herz , Jon Stetson , Scott Deming and few others to change as well. Thanks for your kind words Philman Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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wash Loyal user 239 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-05 14:49, Lior wrote: And derren brown, who closed every night of his national touring theatre show (tens and tens of thousands of seats a total sell out) so we better let him know too. |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts |
I don't try to fool people.
I try to make people have fun. I am attaching an image. I hope it works http://www.flickr.com/photos/47082669@N00/3690542747/
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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Bartelli Elite user Belgium 403 Posts |
I like this presentation. I was also impressed about the fact you could keep on talking during the writing. I have a hard time chewing gum and walking at the same time.
I perform the magic square as well, using Doug Dyment's method. But even using this simple method I can't rattle on like you do. Well done!
Mentalist / Mindreader Bart Nijs
www.bartnijs.be Belgian Mentalist / Mindreader Bart Nijs Some webapps for mentalists |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4697 Posts |
Yes, we've all heard the adages, "if it works, don't fix it," and "don't run if they're not chasing you."
But in my experience, magicians/mentalists are some of the most self-deluded performers there are when it comes to examining their own acts. If it just takes a little more work to make something twice as better, why not do it? Instead, most performers just keep using the same old stale methods and believe that their audiences are still firmly rooted in the 30s back when Anneman was wowing audiences. Unfortunately, audiences have become far more sophisticated in the last few decades. Now it's not uncommon to have folks using their cell phones during a show to browse the web and discover the simplest of secrets. Google "magic square" and you'll quickly find out how often the 4-key number method has been revealed. But you must be right. If Marc, Bill, Jon, Scott and Derren all use the ancient method successfully, it must be the best one. Of course, I've never been one to follow the pack, and instead seek to perform in an unique style... and often, that means I have to employ harder methods. But I guess I'm up to the challenge, unlike others. So, Mr. Manor, please go ahead and keep using your old method that you're certain continues to impress your audiences. Harry, Arthur and myself will instead choose to keep running ahead of the old-school mentalists still tearing up pieces of paper to read thoughts.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Bartelli Elite user Belgium 403 Posts |
Why would you think that anyone would search the internet using the terms 'magic square' after seeing this performance? If you don't mention 'magic square', nobody will know what to search for. And if they would, maybe we should credit them for the effort and the intrest.
I do believe our audiences have indeed become more sophisticated and we need to adapt our methods or at least our presentations to hide the methods. But in most cases people who want to be entertained aren't really looking that closely to catch you.
Mentalist / Mindreader Bart Nijs
www.bartnijs.be Belgian Mentalist / Mindreader Bart Nijs Some webapps for mentalists |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts |
As you saw in the video , all my aduince where having fun and wasn't trying to search
anything in google. (and they all had smart phones) Do you want to say that in your shows people are trying to do search in google about your methods? why is that? And lest say that your magic square (with the better method ) and they search in google and find another method??? Is it good enough for them? are you going to tell them that they got the wrong answer? Have fun Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts |
By the way I have first dgree in math and
computers. The hard methods and the easy methods are the same for me. I can also do the square with 3 digits or 4 But it is not easy for the audince to fllow. When you the old method , the audience can follow and do the math by themslfs. LIOR
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
I believe the presentation in the clip was just about right for:1.The audience at hand.[a group of number geeks].2.The obvious time constraint that Mr. Manor had.
Bottom line they appeared to have enjoyed and been entertained by the quick presentation. I have been performing MS's for about three years now both at my restaurant venues and at my stand-up shows.[by the way I alway's refer to a MS as a number grid to throw the googlers off a bit ] IMHO the methodology is unimportant...it is how the method is presented in a unique and entertaining context.To wit:One of my presentations utilizes one of the most basic methods.However,the MS is integrated in a larger 'savant' type routine wherein,after receiving the chosen #'s I fill in the grid on a see through board in mirror image [the audience sees it correctly],and while reciting the alphabet forwards and backwards at the same time. So for me the key is incorporating whatever MS method into a larger and 'hopefully' entertaining presentation.[like a Birthday presentation etc.] I really enjoy performing various MS's,and so far...so do my guests. P.S.If you wish to do a MS routine,but would rather forgo the arithmetic gymnastics:Check out Dr. Bill Cushman's 'Subliminal Squares'. http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/the-......res.html This is another MS presentation I enjoy using.[packs small plays huge]. Happy trails. Rich |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4697 Posts |
The only time I use magic squares is when I'm constructing "birthday" squares (using a variation of the Chuck Hickok method) as a lead-in to an aura reading. I present it as a lucky talisman.
Sadly, googling info during magic shows is apparently becoming more and more common. If you don't think it's happening, again, you're fooling yourself. I agree, that the more entertaining one is, the less likely your audiences will care about the actual method, but that's no excuse not to use the most deceptive method possible. As for following the maths, my friend Payne pointed out that as long as the first two rows add up, you can pretty much just breeze through the remaining rows, columns, diagonals, and other combinations and boldly assert that they add up to the same total. Even if you've made a mistake in one of the numbers, no one is paying that much attention anymore. But when 12 of the numbers are all less than 16, and then the remaining 4 numbers suddenly jump to the 30s or higher, it my opinion, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Although, I am of the mindset that if performers wish to continue using inferior methods, by all means go for it. It makes my stuff look all that much more amazing.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
People google if you haven't engaged them... or you freaked them out that they will go mad without a method...
My fav. presentation of the magic squares comes from Berglas... where asking people to give signifcant dates or other numerical information specific to them is put into the square... and the magic square value is a clearly very signifcant value for the assembled e.g. the date of the performance.... the date of the couple who's anniversary it is you are performing at... etc. e.g. combine a few methods... let them google all they like... such as yah...dat iz how you make 'em... but how'd those wandom numbers just fit so amazingly... its witchcraft I tells ya... Because I like to present more mystical themes than other themes... that is just me. i.e. present however it works for you... and the evidence will be through repeat bookings for presentations... classic methods are often classic for a reason... Now... all you go to a BBQ and be pals.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-06 13:15, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote: I agree with most of your post...including Paynes idea.I have found that to be effecient also. My point is that...a performer can use the most basic type of MS,and wrap it in a presentation that makes the revelation of the proofs as sort of an encore for the total routine. This is the quote of yours I mostly take issue with: "Although, I am of the mindset that if performers wish to continue using inferior methods, by all means go for it. It makes my stuff look all that much more amazing". To me ..."inferior methods are in the mind of the poster". How can one performer decide that another performers method is inferior without knowing the context of how it is used in a total presentation?[The last sentence:"It makes My stuff look all that much more amazing"]Is sort of 'supercilious'...no? Even if you are referring to a performer who presents a basic MS in a direct way...I believe your choice of words are may fall short.How many times have we witnessed a 'stellar' performer take basic effect and transform it into a piece of Art? I have. Philemon,I remember viewing a clip of you performing a while back.I remember positive thoughts.I believe I left a positive comment. Eliminating all of the hacks,and all those who do not take the Art seriously...I believe there are many here [amateur and pro] who are able to entertain using methods dear to themselves.....no matter how basic. Imo this is a worthy discussion. Happy Trails Rich Hennessey |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-06 13:15, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote: Geez Philemon, if you're going to quote me at least get it right. My idea for the magic square is that none of the numbers add up. Peoples math skills are generaly so bad that if you went through the numbers fast enough and with the proper amount of authority no one in the audience would question to results. BTW you missed a great lecture last week with Mr. Draper. I now have the lead in effect for my Breathalizer prediction trick.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-06 13:15, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote: unlike you I do it almost everyday All I say is based on what my audience say and how they react. Let me point some things People do the math and they check you. I did very few mistakes in all theose years and the audience pointed them before I saw them. I don't say the numbers. I add them and people can follow (as you said , they are smarter then what we think) The more option you show with the MS the more people will check something Someof them will start calculating the diagonals before you do them. I have the MS in trade shows 8-10 times a day The last trade show I did was in Munich (InterSolar) and I did the MS 54 times in 3 days. No one from the company that hired me said something about the method. They where just happy with the many audiences that watched the show and went into the booth with a big smile. They aslo booked me for another trade show in Hamburg late September and another one in LA late October. I choose to stay and do what I do Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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topchange52 Regular user 178 Posts |
I've just watched some of Philemon Vanderbecks performances on You Tube and I now see why he has a problem with the audience googling when he is on.
Lior great job with the Magic Square, keep on entertaining people. |
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