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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Phillip and Henry contracts (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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misterillusion
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Roseville, California
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Thanks RJE for your good advice. There is sure some good wisdom going back and forth here..........

Charlie
May every day be magic!

http://www.misterillusion.com
Dynamike
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Eternal Order
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Some of us are just sitting on our butts complaining about the pain. The simple solution is to stand up and remove the nail we are sitting on by doing it the "old way." If we just keep sitting on the nail, we are just going to continue to complain. And I will be the first to admit the nail is pretty pointy.
TRUMPETMAN
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I love that corollary....

:)

Mark
Mark Pettey
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facebook.com/robbietheringmaster
magicofCurtis
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Doesn't it cost more than $80 to do a show?
Time- traffic, fuel, maintenance, assistants, cell phone, GPS systems, contracts, legal fees, mailings, ads, b-cards, website, and liability insurance, etc etc?

Plus, $30 g's a year in those prime areas how can one live on that amount?
Food and gas hits this amount easily in prime locations in the US
SpellbinderEntertainment
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You know, in this economy,
some people still buy a Ford,
and some still buy a Porsche.
Some shop at Wal-Mart,
some still shop at Tiffany.

It depends upon how you brand yourself,
and your marketing placement.

There are those who do a show for under $100,
and still those who do a show for over 10K.

There is a market and a place for everyone at every level.

Magically,
Walt
magicofCurtis
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Walt,
Honestly how many people really want to do 375 shows in one year at a variety of locations? That is more than one a day... UGGGG
I complain when I have more than 10-15 a month...
SpellbinderEntertainment
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A-M-E-N Curtis, one or two big ones per-month are the best goal!

Thanks,
Walt
Vick
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It's taken me 10+ years to make
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No one under any circumstances any where for any reason should ever do a show for $80, $90 or $100 ......

Unless they are a 10 year old kid starting out and are not familiar with what fees should be


That email from P & H is insulting
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick
Blog of a real world working magician
Magic would be great, if not for magicians
MagicB1S
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What does this "Contract" from P&H cost the Magician? I know when I Looked into P&H a while back they had two different programs one was free, the other you paid for, it just depended how you wanted to get paid. How is this "Contract" working are you paying to sign this contract or is it free to sign up?
"There are Tricks To All Trades.... My Trade is all Tricks"

"An amature practices until he gets it right. A Professional Practices until he can't get it wrong"

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RJE
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I saw this in a promo package the other day and thought it was appropriate for this discussion:

"Good entertainment isn't cheap, and cheap entertainment isn't good"
Carducci
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What a great quote! Unfortunately the buyer doesn't know they are getting cheap entertainment when the book through an 'agency' like P&H
Dynamike
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Quote:
On 2009-07-23 07:14, MagicB1S wrote:
What does this "Contract" from P&H cost the Magician? I know when I Looked into P&H a while back they had two different programs one was free, the other you paid for, it just depended how you wanted to get paid. How is this "Contract" working are you paying to sign this contract or is it free to sign up?

Maybe there is a fee. But I do not think so. I never seen the exact contract.
trickychaz
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I can tell you from personal experience that yes PH will get you work. If you are desperate to get work to do it for 80$ per show..then you need to consider a new occupation. I have worked with PH on several occasions, but here are the downfalls..

a. You don't get paid until 10 days after the show

b. they will send you as far as possible, ask for as much show content as possible and pay little to nothing for it.

If you are considering working with PH consider this.

They once sent me 4 hours out of my way to Kentucky. I arrived at the show..stepped out of my car and I get a phone call. It was philip from PH asking me not to got to the gig. They waited until 1 hour before show time to call and let me know that the gig was cancelled. I went in to speak with the client reguardless....PH told me that the client called to cancel late last night and that is why they didn't call me utnil now....the client however, told me they called 1 week ago to cancel. The client even e-mailed PH about the cancelation 3 days before and showed me the EMAIL for proof.

They once sent an entertainer from Washington DC to my town (6 hour drive) It just so happened that the client hired a magician through PH and hired my balloon twisting though myself. After speaking with the magician he said " they paid me 150.00 today to come 6 hours....I thought to myself.....since it was my hometown..why didn't the just call me for the gig?

Once they refused to pay me because the client was upset...I arrived on time to the gig, and began setting up...set up for me was 1/2 hour. The client was upset because she expected the show to start immediately....WHATEVEr......when PH called me to inform me that they weren't going to pay me....after much discussion over the phone they said...you call the client and talk to her personally...when I called the client she said " I never called and complained to PH about your show" "nor did I ask for a refund"

I was booked for a gig for 450.00 3 hours aways from my home at a Ski Resort....Granite it was a fun gig and I was accepting the price....the client brought up the price..."do I PAY YOU the $1000.00?" stated the client..I said WHAT? 1000.00?

PH paid me less than half of the total booking dollars....I have heard through the grapevine that a good agent will

a. pay you up front for your desirable work

b. only take 20-30% cut for the booking fee

So if you want to work with them...go for it...If they don't change the way they run their company..I don't imagine they will be around much on longer...

Charles
Dynamike
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Thanks for posting the info, Charles.
Matthew W
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Did you sign anything contract or anything with P&H? If not, I would have told the client, "Yes, you pay me" and never called or dealt with P&H again, especially after what they did to you before. That's not right to pay so little when they are making so much. They didn't drive to the show, they didn't setup, they didn't perform. They should have gotten $250 at MOST.

Sounds like they are out to rip off the performers.

I actually got a gig because of Philip and Henry. On the way to a show yesterday, I got a call for a birthday party. The person had used Philip and Henry in the past and tried to get in touch with them this year and they never called back. Their loss is my gain.
-Matt
Christopher Starr
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Thanks for the post Charles. Very illuminating.
Michael Messing
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Quote:
On 2009-07-26 23:29, Matthew W wrote:
Did you sign anything contract or anything with P&H? If not, I would have told the client, "Yes, you pay me" and never called or dealt with P&H again, especially after what they did to you before. That's not right to pay so little when they are making so much. They didn't drive to the show, they didn't setup, they didn't perform. They should have gotten $250 at MOST.


First of all, two wrongs don't make a right. Ripping Philip & Henry off is not the right thing to do. Second, taking large commissions is not as uncommon as you think. The difference here is that agents that typically take a large commission usually make sure the performer is well compensated. When I worked as an entertainment agent, if I was able to get a higher amount for a performer than normal, I would split the difference with the performer. In other words, the performer usually gets $1,600 on a $2,000 gig (20% commission.) The booking ends up $2,500 for some reason. I give the the performer $1,850 and I get $650. The performer gets more and I get a bigger percentage.

In the case of Philip and Henry, they don't give you a show unless they can make a very large commission. In order to do that, they often beat you down on price. That bugs me but the way to deal with it is not to accept shows from them.

By the way, Karrell Fox used to tell about an agent that took 50% commission on his performances. Karrell said he didn't mind though because the agent paid Karrell twice his normal fee.

Michael
Matthew W
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Apparently, the two names made several wrongs.

First, three hours each way is a lot of driving, and then to do the show for only $450. Second, they refused to pay a performer, for reasons they made up. Third, they send someone 4 hours away and call 1 hour before showtime to cancel, knowing a week in advance.

I think the extra $550 would have covered nicely for being abused like that.
-Matt
Michael Messing
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I'm not condoning what they did but it's not ethical do what you are suggesting. It may seem fair to you but you have to have integrity.

As for agreeing to do the show and traveling 6 hours for $450, that's a choice Charles made. What P&H did was wrong to me but they didn't force Charles to take the gig. I've been pretty dissatisfied with a couple of things they've done to me but I certainly am not going to try to get back at them by doing something I think is wrong.

The answer is simple. To avoid P&H taking advantage of you, refuse to work with them. That's it.

Michael
Donald Dunphy
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I would agree with Michael, and also add this thought about lowering yourself to unethical behavior.

Even if a person doesn't always get rewarded by others for doing the right thing ethically, part of the reward is in your self-esteem, and how your see yourself. You feel better about yourself, and can grow and aim higher for goals in your life.

And of course, the opposite is true. When you do things that are unethical (and you know deep down inside that they are unethical), you diminish your self-esteem and diminish your potential for growth and maximum achievement.

Life is full of choices that can either help you or harm you.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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