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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Phillip and Henry contracts (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Ken Northridge
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Quote:
On 2009-08-23 00:34, Kellar wrote:
RJE I am calling you out….


I'm not sure why you think RJE needs to 'called out.' He has done nothing except to share his experience and knowledge with us.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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TrickyRicky
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He's probably a bit jealous of RJE success in the magic business.
Ken is correct about RJE. I know them personally, and as friends in magic.
They are 2 of the nicest people in the business with a fabulous show.
I'm trying to find some time to go to one of their resorts booking to catch the show.
I don't know what David Johnson is muttering about. RJE and partner are are two of the busiest performers in Ontario..
TrickyRicky
Kellar
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Maybe I should have spoken directly with RJE and not posted my "rant" publicly.
I to know both Rob and Pat and have sat at thier kitchen table, my concern here is that RJE states he has cornered the market in his community because there are no other local performers. I met RJE 4 years ago at a QMS meeting along with other working professionals. (and the Q stands for Quinte, the region we live in!)
Again my rant maybe should not have been posted here though I am contesting something written here!
Jealous? LOL Where in the world did that come from? I am not slamming anyone here I am simple calling the off shot comment made!
So let it be know...my hard feelings have been publicized and as far as I am concerned I'll finish taking this up in private should you choose to have it that way.

David Johnson
RJE
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Hello David,

Sorry you have hurt feelings.

If you check the yellow pages in the Quinte area, you will see that we have no competitors listed for our region. So, when JQ Public searches for entertainers, they only find us listed.

Also, the people I met at the QMS, aothough all very nice gentlemen, were mostly hobbyists and non performers. Those performers that I did meet worked out of Kingston or Peterborough. Yourself and another Belleville performer, I only knew because I met you both at the meetings. However, neither of the two Belleville performers advertise, that I have ever seen and I have never seen any mention of them in the numerous local papers as having doing any shows in the area. So, how would anyone know they were there unless they were directly involved with them?

The shows you covered for us were children's birthday parties that I sent to you (and I believe one show at the military base) because Pat and I don't do children's birthday party shows. (Please note that I am not belittling birthday party performers, it is just that Pat and I don't do them) I would have continued to pass them off to you, but due to some personal problems you were having, you became unreachable for a while. I then sent the birthday party shows to another birthday party magician that I know of in the area (again he does not advertise either).

So, as to no competition, in our area of performances, there is none that advertise. We get the phone calls and we then pass them along, without any fee (I once asked for $10 per show passed along to you, but never collected and so figured what the heck, no big deal).

And yes, Pat and I are very busy this summer. I am typing this from our trailer on our day off from performing. We enjoy travelling and performing and just this morning, I turned down a week worth's of performances in Mexico because we were already booked (with my day job as a full time high school teacher that I have mentioned here at the Café on more than one occaision).

The agents that book us are based out of various parts of the country and they pay us to travel and perform when they book us. For many years as well, I was booking large theatre fund raising shows, which also took us to various parts of the province and allowed us to meet and network with other performers from various parts of the country and this too opened many doors for us. Plus, with close to 30 years in the business, I have been able to make a lot of friends that I have enjoyed working with.

So, we work in the Quinte area and we work far afield from it as well.

But, if I offended you, I do apologize. If you will send me your current phone number I will pass along more birthday party shows for you.

Rob Evans
Kellar
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Rob, thanks for vocalizing you apology, accepted and appreciated as are your shared thoughts and experiences.

I am going to head over to the yellow pages thread and share some thoughts and opinions regarding related the topic. As for PH I am not able to infer one way or the other.

Thanks again,

"Not to impress you but to impress upon you" this is as local to your area as it gets!
http://www.averyentertainingproduction.c......View.pdf
Vick
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Fun Magicians is also Philip and Henry


Here is what they charge per show from the P & H website
http://www.philipandhenry.com/rates_ad_n.htm adult shows

$380 - 30 minute show under 80 people
$589 - 30 minute show over 80 people
+ $300 to add 1 large illusion
$389 Mingle Magic one hour
There are more prices on the page


http://www.philipandhenry.com/rates_bday_n.htm Family entertainment
$380 - Family Event
$289 Birthday Magic (no show time length)
There are more prices on the page


I have also personally spoke to one of their agents who dropped the priced on a top act for a one hour adult show from $3,000 to $1,800 when I would not buy at $3,000


The family prices are about normal but ......
.....$80 to $150 to the performer
over 50% to Philip and Henry

It is our choice, we can work or not accept jobs from whomever we choose


One of my biggest beefs with P & H is whoever is going to work for these prices can't be every good (or is very desperate and doesn't understand their value)and seeing a poor show shapes the view the general public has of magic

P & H for local shows are putting out the performer that will work cheapest. Clients are not always getting a quality act and the reflects poorly on all of us.

As you well know when a party sees a poor quality act that shapes their opinion of magic and part of the reason why magic from it's once lofty place on the entertainment ladder is now relegate to the lowest rungs.


The choice is yours, support the degeneration of the art
Or take a stand and demand the pay you are worth

If no one took a local P & H job for one month due to low pay .......
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Dynamike
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I do not think anyone should look down at P&H. Remember, it is one of us who accepted the job. There is no agreement set with the magician and P&H about what both parties receive, only the magician. To those who are looking down at P&H, you should try picking yourself up to be above them.
Vick
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Dynamike - I could not disagree with you more, remember P & H dropped $1,200 off the price on a one hour show to me on the phone for an act if I named you would know

P&H by their every actions are hurting the industry and care nothing about the art.

Their local jobs go to the lowest bidder only

The lowest bidder is the cheapest for a reason!!!
When a performer takes a $80 or even $100 gig are they capable of doing a quality show? If so are they going to at that ridiculous fee??

and that hurts all of us!!!


Please let me state again
When a party sees a poor quality act that will shape their opinion of magic and is part of the reason why magic from it's once lofty place on the entertainment ladder is now relegate to the lowest rungs.


The thing you are correct about Dynamike is no one has to take those shows
AND NO ONE SHOULD!!!! NOT AT THOSE PRICES


No one should any one if they respect the art, themselves, their act, their investment of time and equipment and all those who have gone before

Also if no one took a P & H show for one month they might have to change their business model


For a real professional the absolute minimum pay for a 30 minutes family show (children birthday party) should be $200 and that's in a small market if the performer is desperate for the money or it is within 15 minutes of their home or a show they are playing already that day.
P & H charges $289 for that show, that is 31% to the agency

Posted: Aug 30, 2009 3:28pm
P.s. Dynamike if you want to accept that low price of $80 to $100 a show just remember once you start accepting that fee --- That's going to be your new fee schedule

When you work cheap that is what everyone will want to pay you

and makes a statement about the people who decide to accept those low fees

Is that all you think of yourself and your show?
Who wants to be know as the "cheap" guy?
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Carducci
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The era of this type of 'agency' is ending. Until now, even the best alternatives to working with outfits like P&H have been less than ideal, leading to a race to the bottom in both quality and price.

There is a new agency that connects good clients with the best the client can afford, not the cheapest the agency can find. An agency that pays performs what they're worth, knows their acts' and their strengths; and connects them with the best bookings.

An agency that does more than passively wait for leads (then pass them on and take their cut), but proactively markets their talent though every channel available to generate the most work for a small stable of talent.

I'm going out on a limb, but I really believe there is a better way. I encourage you to find out more
Blair Marshall
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"local jobs go to the lowest bidder only"

Sorry to say "no".

One thing that is being overlooked here is that Phillip goes for the lowest bidder THEY CAN GET AT THAT TIME. (Take note of that.) Often they already have the contract for the show, and have to get a performer, so quote your fee, you may be surprised. ie. if you have a certain fee, and it is Christmas when everyone is booked, and you just happen to have an opening, they may pay your fee.

Blair

Posted: Aug 30, 2009 8:19pm
Oh, a note about the rate pages above. I believe these are for those quick on-line quotes, if a customer calls in to them, I don't believe they will lose them because of a high list price/quote.

Blair
Vick
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Quote:
On 2009-08-30 18:32, Blair Marshall wrote:
"local jobs go to the lowest bidder only"

Sorry to say "no".

One thing that is being overlooked here is that Phillip goes for the lowest bidder THEY CAN GET AT THAT TIME. (Take note of that.) Often they already have the contract for the show, and have to get a performer, so quote your fee, you may be surprised. ie. if you have a certain fee, and it is Christmas when everyone is booked, and you just happen to have an opening, they may pay your fee.

Blair


Blair, as you stated it STILL goes to the lowest bidder EVERY TIME!
Cheap is as cheap does

P & H charges more for December shows

What I posted are their public prices and the webpage there are on
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Dynamike
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Vick, I have been putting a few pieces together. It looks like you are concerned about yourself ONLY (If I am wrong correct me). No problem if you are because it is very common with a lot of us. I accepted a lot of request from P&H in the past (nothing under $125). It is because I thought I had no choice. I am excellent with magic and I have a website, thinking I had it all. I recently found out my biggest missing piece is SEO. I did not know about that until a lot of members mentioned it to me on the Café. The searches show P&H already know about it. So if you and I want to receive more calls than P&H in our local area, we got to get off our butts and do better on the internet. Chewing out P&H or telling other magicians not to accept their packages is not going to get you more shows.

Presently I am waiting for my SEO book to arrive. I already have a new web host and domain name for my new website. All I need is for the template to be put together with the text. That is what I am presently working on, if you ever noticed why my post count dropped so much recently. Smile

Vick, if you care for any tips send me a PM. I have received phone calls and PMs from several members here showing me their support. I will be glad to be a farmer and help plant the seeds with others, except on my side of town. Smile
Vick
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We have one of the richest performing arts and in part because of poor performances our art is relegated to the bottom rungs of the entertainment ladder from the once lofty place it held


From my perspective the P & H business model and deal hurts the art.
P & H hires shows to the lowest bid.
Who screens these acts? Do they have any standards? When the public sees a poor quality show they think that's what magic is and may not consider ever booking a "magic" show again
The last thing our art needs is unprofessional, untrained, self proclaimed performer accepting $100 (when all the client knows is they paid $300 for the show) and doing bad shows


This does allow an opportunity for a good performer once they can get in front of an audinece, entertainment director, talent buyer or agency and have the opportunity to share decent entertainment
But it would be nice if we were never in that position


I'm an entertainer who's medium is magic,
One of the my favorite compliments is I'm not like "other" magicians


Thank you all for bearing with me, obviously I get very frustrated. P & H contribute to a much larger problem (I've expressed this in emails between Philip Murad and myself)

When the majority of the calls I get in one week are for childern's birthday shows (family entertainment) it is very frustrating!
It is in part because of that bottom rung of the entertainment ladder magic has earned and been relegated to
(My ads, websites and so on are geared towards adult work)

So yes when someone does a poor show ...... it hurts us all ...
and P & H foster poor shows by their very business model



Thanks Dynamike for your offer of help. Very nice of you but I'll pass
It is interesting you think/find yourself "excellent" with magic by your own words. That makes quite a statement.
When I think of excellent magicians ..... I'm not thinking of you


Over and out

Be well

Best wishes,
Vick
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
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Ken Northridge
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Quote:
On 2009-08-31 22:09, Dynamike wrote:
I recently found out my biggest missing piece is SEO. I did not know about that until a lot of members mentioned it to me on the Café. The searches show P&H already know about it. So if you and I want to receive more calls than P&H in our local area, we got to get off our butts and do better on the internet.


I think you're on the right track Dynamike. With proper SEO you'll not have to worry about P & H.(I currently score much higher than P & H in my area.) I also credit kind folks at the Magic Café for intoducing me to SEO.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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Dynamike
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Amen to that, Ken.
trickychaz
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Quote:
On 2009-08-31 22:09, Dynamike wrote:
Vick, I have been putting a few pieces together. It looks like you are concerned about yourself ONLY (If I am wrong correct me). No problem if you are because it is very common with a lot of us. I accepted a lot of request from P&H in the past (nothing under $125). It is because I thought I had no choice. I am excellent with magic and I have a website, thinking I had it all. I recently found out my biggest missing piece is SEO. I did not know about that until a lot of members mentioned it to me on the Café. The searches show P&H already know about it. So if you and I want to receive more calls than P&H in our local area, we got to get off our butts and do better on the internet. Chewing out P&H or telling other magicians not to accept their packages is not going to get you more shows.

Presently I am waiting for my SEO book to arrive. I already have a new web host and domain name for my new website. All I need is for the template to be put together with the text. That is what I am presently working on, if you ever noticed why my post count dropped so much recently. Smile

Vick, if you care for any tips send me a PM. I have received phone calls and PMs from several members here showing me their support. I will be glad to be a farmer and help plant the seeds with others, except on my side of town. Smile


It's not that they know about SEO. They know the value of SEO and hire someone to get the results you see. I am sure their SEO efforts cost more than 5,000/month being that they are listed for just about every state in the US and Canada. I can't out perform them, and it wouldn't be worth my time to. What I can do is offer the best show possible to my clients, and get good recommendations which will not cost me a penny. Picking up a show can come through many sources. An agent is your client, and the booked show is their client. Make your client happy and their client happy and you will sure succeed.

I worked through them when I first started out, and they did decent for me. I would accept work through them occasionally, but the majority of my list I would like to manage because they are my gold. You may do a good job for PH and then they hire a different magician for that same client next year.
Charles
Tom Trix
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Please allow me to say that it is very interesting to read this post. I must say that the competition for jobs in the U.S.A. as children an family entertainers is very hard. It sounds crazy in my ears that somebody will take a job as low as $80.00 and the booking agency charges more than the entertainer gets paid. I know it is hard times, it is so in Denmark too, but not that bad,I will not move my ace for $ 80.00 that is a payment you are paying a 10 year old new beginner. I can`t understand, that any will take a job at that price. A booking agency like Philip and Henry ruins the business, and does more harm than good. Of course I can understand that some are hungry.
There is no business like Showbusiness.
Ashkenazi the Pretty Good
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I reported them to California authorities. What followed was a bad movie plot: http://kevin-or-ash.blogspot.com/2016/11......and.html

Get a cup of Smile - it's a couple of pages of unintentional hilarity.

Happy gigs, guys and gals!
------------

We could have been practicing!
Mindpro
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...and this is how misinformation gets spread throughout the community. So nice of you to dig up a 7 year old post for such misinformation and skewed perspective.

I'll never understand the maliciousness in the magic community.
Keith Raygor
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My opinion is this is another example of Mindpro maligning the magic community - without adding any substance.

The article Kevin linked to was a detailed assessment of his dealings with P and H and the State of CA. He is welcome to add his comments to any thread that is appropriate to the topic, such as the one he chose.

You offer no content whatsoever as to what you consider to be the misinformation and skewed perspective, while at the same moment slinging your well-worn arrows at magicians in the very place set aside for us to discuss these things. (Reminder to others that Mindpro is not a magician and has never been one).

There is nothing in his writings that I found contrary to my experiences with some agents. Please consider either backing up your indictments, or making constructive posts that are on topic.

I'm guessing you have an ebook on agents that contains the REAL work that you're willing to sell!
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