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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-15 21:58, Jon Stetson wrote: Can I join you Jon? Tony |
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Paul Carnazzo Inner circle 1174 Posts |
This may seem obvious, but I think "taboo" nailed it in an earlier post (not sure if he was joking).
but if you're looking to boost income, you should be doing everything you can to book future events. I would suggest giving away as much promotional material, knock your audiences socks off with your show...and sell yourself. good luck |
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aldiamo Regular user 155 Posts |
I wasnt joking BTW...
It is offensive what James Munton said to Mr Otto. probably he might be right in his world; He performs Kid shows. http://www.jamesmunton.com/ |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Taboo,
What on earth was offensive? And if you actually look at my site, you'll see I perform for plenty of adult audiences! I think I am one of the few people on this thread with the ability to answer the original poster's question since I have a lot experience selling products at corporate shows. Best, James |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-15 23:11, pmc magic wrote: Selling yourself through products is passive income. Posted: Jul 16, 2009 6:22am Everybody to there own. But I wouldn't sell book tests or any mentalism. That devalues what you do in my opinion. It also devalues mentalism in general. |
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Jon Stetson Veteran user 329 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-16 06:22, mindpunisher wrote: Ditto. Quote:
On 2009-07-15 23:02, Tony Iacoviello wrote: Come on T. There is plenty of room on the Bus. Onward! |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Who's driving?
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dusty Veteran user 352 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-16 08:50, Jon Stetson wrote: Basically what your saying here is; "What I do is achieved by using "prop" books, wanna buy one?"
Regards,
Dusty aka Max Gordon. "Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!" Exclusive publications available from: www.solutions.yolasite.com |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Quote:
But I wouldn't sell book tests or any mentalism. That devalues what you do in my opinion. It is a valid point. Again, it depends how you do it. Kreskin is a master at doing just this. In his book "How to be a Fake Kreskin" he shares lots of methods for his tricks. The reader concludes that since he is sharing these methods he can't be using them himself, therefore he must have real powers! Brilliant. I perform a book and magazine test directly before I perform the routine that I sell BOR. Those who buy the product after my show and learn the secret assume that I can't be using similar methods for the other routine I do. It cancels out a line of reasoning and makes what I do seem even more impossible. Instead of devaluing the performance it enhances it! Look, there is a valid debate here. Go ahead and jump on the (short?) bus out of here if you want. Meanwhile this is an interesting discussion for others to think about. I do see the argument for never selling any secrets at your show. I've had many discussions with magicians/mentalists about this. Personally, on the scale of BOR selling, I am somewhere in the middle. I know some entertainers who stop and do a 10-minute infomercial in the middle of their show. I think that goes too far. I know several performers who "give away" secrets during the show. My instinct is that is wrong. I don't even like the fake explanation part of Vernon's cups & balls! On the other end of the scale, many entertainers choose not to sell anything at all. It is true that selling products adds nicely to my bank balance, but that is not the only reason I do it and I would not do it for that reason alone. Selling products also makes you look more of a star. If the Rolling Stones can sell T-shirts and baseball caps at their concerts, so can you. Nobody will think less of you for it - you'll be surprised to discover the opposite happens. But once again, to get back to the original poster's question, I have had a lot of success selling BOR (and doing upsells) at corporate events. It's not hard to do and has many advantages. If you don't want to sell tricks, there are plenty of other things you can sell. A friend who is a brilliant motivational speaker sells thousands and thousands of those Billy Bob teeth at his corporate shows each year! Some of you seem to have made up your mind about selling BOR, but lack the ability to express your reasoning. That's a shame. Best, James |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
James, look at it this way: Copperfield does his show then, in the lobby, he is seen selling cheap illusion plans for some of the illusions he performed.
As some have said, it's telling your audience, "Hey, you can do what you just paid me for and do it cheaply." There's a difference when people either do mentalism or psychic acts and then sell palmistry books or books on astrology. Those books still keep up the mystique and don't give away the "tricks" you used. Anyway, if it works for you then why bother with us. Jon, do I need exact change for the bus? Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Quote:
As some have said, it's telling your audience, "Hey, you can do what you just paid me for and do it cheaply." I answered that in my above post. If your audience is thinking that, you are doing it wrong! Quote:
Anyway, if it works for you then why bother with us. It's called a discussion, Greg. I was responding to the original question and the subsequent comments that were made. There are plenty of performers out there responsibly selling products at their shows. Try it and you might even like it! Best, James |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
As I said, if it works for you then go for it.
Jon, can I get a transfer once I hop on? Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Greg, if you would only let me teach you how to sell BOR successfully, you wouldn't need to take the bus!
Best, James |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
]
It's not for me. All the best in selling your stuff. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
I understand the concern with selling "secrets" at a corporate show. But, what about other things. I have yet to hear a reason against it (other than it might not be allowed). I'm open to hear your arguments. If there's a valid reason against it, then I'm not married to the idea.
I agree that you must be careful to do it in a way that is not "tacky". If you can do it in a way that the audience actually appreciates, what's the problem? Not an attack by me, just an honest question seeking honest answers. |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Jonathan,
I sympathize. It sometimes seems difficult to get simple answers, doesn't it? I think part of the problem is that many people have not actually seen BOR done properly. They have the perception it is tacky because they haven't actually seen anyone do it in a corporate setting in an appropriate way. Perhaps you'll get an intelligent answer when they get back from their little bus trip. Best, James |
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Jerskin Inner circle 2497 Posts |
My simple answer is that the companies I perform for in the $7500-$10,000 a show range wouldn't want their audiences-who are often getting the show as a
perk for outstanding sales or whatever-being sold anything afterwards. I also don't think the meeting planner/event coordinator/agent would be too happy either.
GrEg oTtO
MUNDUS VULT DECIPI |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Oh, Greg, you couldn't help yourself, could you? I mean, really.
I am afraid that kind of answer is not going to help Jonathan at all. |
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
This discussion seems to have broadened a bit from what I suspect the original questioner had in mind (or perhaps my understanding of what he meant by "corporate events" is different from mine). BTW, I know James Munton. He once lived in the DC area and was a member of the same I.B.M. Ring that I belong to. He is a very successful performer and I consider him a friend although he and I part company a bit on this issue.
IMO there are certainly situations/circumstances in which I have no problem with BOR sales. I even have a pitch item that I sell (but only with the sponsor's specific approval) at some of the family shows I present as fund-raisers for elementary school PTAs — a plastic "slum" paddle trick I buy from D. Robbins and the "12 Tricks Brochure" sold by Ed Harris years ago. While they do represent the sale/exposure of "secrets," they are nevertheless clearly innocuous “kiddie” tricks none of which I can imagine any working magician ever featuring in his performances. I also have no problem with motivational speakers who sell their "self-help" books, newsletters, etc., at their presentations and consider them no different in that regard from magicians who sell lecture notes when they lecture at magic clubs and conventions or the many touring acts that sell T-shirts, tour jackets, CDs etc. and other souvenirs at their shows and concerts. Having said all that however, I think there is a world of difference between those examples and selling what is essentially a “pitch” item — especially one that exposes the secret of an effect (in this case a book test) that you featured in your performance at a corporate event for several reasons. First, in the context given, I assume that a “corporate event” is something like the company’s or association’s annual awards banquet or holiday party at which the performer has been hired — not as a speaker, motivator or team-builder, but strictly as an entertainer — and that the audience is comprised entirely of adults. In such instances I consider selling a “pitch” item to be an inappropriate and unwarranted intrusion that is taking advantage of the client’s good graces in hiring you. Second, even though the method used in the book test James sells (and which, BTW, I am familiar with) is different from the book test featured in his show, it is a method that has been — and still is — used in several marketed book tests that may be in current use by some working performers and might therefor be considered gratuitous exposure. In addition, despite the fact that he uses another method in the test in his show, once the audience seizes upon (or in this case is given) a method that seems to explain how something the performer did was accomplished — even though it is not the method actually employed — the effect is significantly diminished if not completely destroyed. I also think that James’ assertion that his motivation in using BOR sales is not primarily to increase his profit from the show may be a bit disingenuous — at least it seems at odds with what is expressed in the promotion of the “Instant BOR System” CD he is selling to other performers. Accordingly I’m afraid I have to side with Jon and Greg on this one and think Greg’s analogy of Copperfield selling “build it yourself” plans for one of the illusions in his show in the lobby following a performance a valid one. Sorry James. I hope we can still be friends.
Dick Christian
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Mark Powell Special user UK 504 Posts |
How is it any different from a Svengali pitch? (Other than James's show is not solely based around the book test he's trying to sell BOR).
As to the Companies or event planners not being happy with it, I'm assuming the topic comes up at booking stage? If so, and they're not happy with it, I'm assuming no BOR. If they don't object, then it's a non-issue. As to what's being pitched, I agree that a Book Test might not be the best idea. Do you use cards in your act James? How much would it cost to print up (in bulk) decks with the company's logo on the back? I guess you'd have to check the legal side first - make sure it's ok to use the company's registered logo - but again, that would all be done at booking stage and not thrust upon the audience impromptu. That would be a great giveaway and one I would love getting. |
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