|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] | ||||||||||
magicnorm Special user 509 Posts |
I think it is obivious that the show to some degree is controlled. Be serious , when you advance acts that now one believes have a chance to win in the semifinals let alone the finals, I think the average person knows that entertainment value is involved and determines what acts are advanced. I know for a fact that there are acts, very talented acts, that participate knowing full well that it is controlled, but realize that you can't buy the advertising that you will recieve if you happen to make it to any of the final rounds. For some serious acts its an obvious win win situation.
|
|||||||||
longhaired1 Veteran user Salida 316 Posts |
I read Jimmy's very well written post a few days ago and having thought about it a bit I return to find that most of the points I would have made have already been posted. I've only seen about 3 minutes of this show and it's immediately obvious that this Piers fellow is the shows "heel", and he plays his role. Whether he plays it well or not is a matter of opinion I guess. And I won't even comment on Hasslehoff and Osbourne judging "talent".
The fact remains that this type of effect begs the viewer to challenge. I would not begin to criticize the way Jimmy responded, but when something that is a trick is presented as "real", you wind up on very thin ice. If Piers had used the word "trick" instead of "scam" I believe it would have put the matter in a completely different light. "That was just a trick". "No it wasn't. I really did that". That has the makings of a no win situation. Jimmy also pointed out that the audience reacted very favorably to the presentation. What we see here is the distinct difference between a group reaction and an individual reaction. One would tend to believe that the judges should take into account the reaction of the audience, but no matter how well received any performance is by the group there are bound to be individuals in the audience who feel otherwise. Can you imagine if after every performance each individual audience member gets to grab the microphone and opine. Music is my gig these days and even on the nights when we rock the house I am sure there is someone in the audience who just can't stand what they are hearing. |
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-31 21:25, TomBoleware wrote: I hear this claim constantly from people about how much a prime time TV credit means. Quantify what exactly it means if you could. Do you think it helps to raise your price in a significant way? I just don't think it means quite as much as people seem to want to put stock in.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-07 00:55, Dannydoyle wrote: Sadly, I think you might be right. With the recent proliferation of reality programming such as AGT and the ratio of bad acts in the audition rounds, buyers realize that television exposure (even on a national show) no longer carries any weight of quality. In years past you actually had to be good to get on network television. Now you have a much better chance of getting on these shows by being exceptionally bad.
Ray Pierce
|
|||||||||
Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
So this guy's act actually aired? I watched all the shows, so I though,t and never saw the guy or the trick. How much of it actually aired since I do not recall any scam comments.
Sounds like PM could not figure it out so reacted as I have heard little kids react "there is no such thing as real magic." They are so confused they put up blockers. I am sure in hind sight you are kicking yourself for not playing the game. The game is NOT to **** off the judges. We all saw and probably laughed at the magician last year who screwed up his illusion badly and then lied that that was "part of the act" to make you think. That drove the judges nuts and they all voted no. So when you challanged PM, you lost the game. You did lie to him. I am sure you are kicking your self for not having a clever comeback. I am not faulting you, I probably would be hard pressed to come back with "Scam? Well I did say I was a magician...." or " Mr Morgan, it is A TRICK!" Don't Penn and Teller do a catch but expressly say in the intro that no matter what they see it is an illusion and be tried. But it still works since one can not see how it could be. I am sure there a ton of come backs that would have broken him quickly to smile rather than directly lie about the effect. PM was close in his guesses and you can not fault him. I bet you have thought many times how maybe you could have reacted different and maybe wish you would have responded with a better reply if you had the chance. I would be curious what the other judges would have said if they went before PM. BTW who is PM and what makes him a judge besides knowing Simon? Does he have ANY entertainment background? What they really need, and I have wrote a letter in the past to the producers, is a talent agent who books variety acts to sit as a judge. At least it would give an illusion that they are qualified. Yeah it is amazing people believe their phone calls will make a difference or that a kid would ever win a vegas show. Thanks for the run down. It was very informative to read how the process goes behind the scenes. I was hopeful when I saw a close up/ street guy win the Swedish version. I had been thinking for a couple a years there are far better illusions done close up and would work well on TV. So when the magician won in Sweden, I thought it could work. However from all your comments about them asking you about Grand Illusion, including the judges, I guess it is hopeless since these uneducated nit wit producers and judges feel that BIG is better. As for the current token magician, I am sad to say he does not have the chops to win this show. It will come down to what is easier to sell, singing and dancing. It ticks me off how these judges say " I never saw this before" But when Nathon Burton was on he did the same things if not better for I think the same judges. (2 if not all three) So it just screams of cheating. This is not an election. They can tell you what ever they want. They can say that Grandma Lee got the most phone ins when she didn't if they want. I do not think one act in the finals is talented in the context of this show.The context is that they have to be worthy of 1 Mil and worthy to carry a Vegas show. Not one act is worthy of either prize.They might have some talent. Some might be good for fairs and schools or local gigs, but they are not the next greatest thing. If the show was not so hell bent on showing the bad performers, something I do enjoy, there would be more spots for TALENT. While I am known to watch these shows only for the train wrecks, I could elevate myself to watch a show that had only talent not the bad acts. They should have the right as some magic competitions do to not offer the GRAND prize but only 1st. Anyway, they have to like you first. Maybe just shrugging your shoulders when he made his comments or being humble would have been the way to go. "I did say I was a magician" It is something others thing of trying for the show might consider. Just say "I am sorry you were not entertained," smile and look to the next judge. BTW someone has said PM has not pulled apart other tricks. Even this year he was pulling apart the chair suspension the one guy did. The only reason he did this was because the guy came out so cocky and had a poor presentation. Anyway, as I read your account I did say "Well that is show business. You go that far and still do not get your due. " Sorry it happened but it made for an interesting story. |
|||||||||
Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
Second thought, you should have handed them the gun to come up to do it again.
They would have backed down due to time and not taken you up on it. It would have thrown them. however I am sure if you did not start off with the reply you did, you would have been better off. I also agree with others that it was never going to seen as magic, especially if you are trying to play it off as a stunt. Maybe that is the core of their conflict. And in the end. Nick called it a amazing TRICK by your recollection. |
|||||||||
Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
Sorry for three posts in a row. I guess I am a little fired up about this.
Casinos cheat since they created the odds. They created the games. So yes, after the games are set they do not cheat but that is stacking the deck. Put on 20 horrible acts and a mediocre act because greater than it is. They will make win who they want by all their pre planning. I really would like to know the laws they have to follow. IS it like game shows? Do they have to be monitored by independent groups for the phone voting? I hope so but I suspect they do not. Quote:
On 2009-08-05 18:16, Ray Pierce wrote: |
|||||||||
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-07 12:45, Powermagic wrote: lol... you need to change your screen name to PowerPoster! Quote:
Casinos cheat since they created the odds. They created the games. So yes, after the games are set they do not cheat but that is stacking the deck. This might be getting way off topic but... The term "Cheating" for me implies deceit or fraud. Casinos definitely "stack the deck" in their favor much like these shows do, but that's not technically cheating to me. The odds are posted and you go into the games aware of them from the beginning, just like you do on these shows. You might be unsophisticated or lack knowledge about the games in both cases. Casinos and these shows capitalize on that but that's your own fault for not studying the rules carefully. Quote:
I really would like to know the laws they have to follow. IS it like game shows? Do they have to be monitored by independent groups for the phone voting? I hope so but I suspect they do not. They are classed as compensated entertainment events not game shows so Standards & Practices aren't involved in the same way they would be on a show like "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire" or "Deal Or No Deal" which are pure game shows. Even though they are "competing" in theory... AGT, Big Brother, Survivor and other shows can fall into this category of "entertainment" as well so the rules aren't as strict.
Ray Pierce
|
|||||||||
Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
Ahh so if their boy or girl does not place by phone votes they can still vote them in. That is what I thought.
That is, it IS cheating by your terms since most of the people watching assume it is how they see it. The fact that this guy was called to LA without every auditioning before the judges in Miami, is proof that they "cheat". I guess you first and foremost have to impress the local producers and directors, but then try not to cheese off the judges, especially the one that is best buds with the Simon. You could be the best of the best but if you tick them off.... I will be honest though. I just watched this guys promo to get a better idea of what the judges saw. While I think he probably does a fine job I did not see anything extra special. I mean no disrespect but the acts I saw on the promo are just standard effects pretty much presented as they come. I did not feel the STAR FACTOR to warrant Vegas or 1 million. I am not sure what he wore for the show but based on his stage outfit on the promo, un-tucked shirt, casual pants and sneakers, well I might have an idea what else the judges were not vibing on besides the act. (I guess Rick Thomas is partially to blame for this look. I really do not mean to pick on Jimmy and appreciate his post. I just wonder if there is more to the story than just his side. |
|||||||||
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-07 14:31, Powermagic wrote: lol... I'm glad I haven't retained you as a lawyer! No, cheating is fraud and if you've taken the time to read the rules and stipulations in the credits it is all spelled out in English. Yes, I know it goes by fast but they will always be posted on a web site. They are ALWAYS in the talent contracts so you know going in what is what if you bother to read. Quote:
The fact that this guy was called to LA without every auditioning is proof that they "cheat". I'm guessing your passion and fervor is getting in the way of your research. By the time anyone gets to that stage, they have been seen by several talent coordinators and at least one show producer and have performed the exact act they want to do either live or on video. They DO scout out acts and offer them a "line pass" if you will so they don't have to wait with the thousands of random people but they still have to go through a lengthy process before they get an offer to shoot anything on a stage. Quote:
I guess you first and foremost have to impress the local producers and directors, but then try not to cheese off the judges, especially the one that is best buds with the Simon. You could be the best of the best but if you tick them off.... Again you have to understand the process. There are no local producers. The actual production team travels around the country to the differing locals and to make it on to the televised taping stage for that city, you have to have been through the same lengthy process which frequently takes months. They will have you always wear the same costume so they can edit it to appear as though you go from a line of thousands of people onto the stage in front of the judges but nothing could be further from the truth. The initial screening is what they show with the throngs of people. The televised "taping" in the various cities usually occurs months later.
Ray Pierce
|
|||||||||
Gilgamesh_The_Librarian Elite user 408 Posts |
Sorry about Jimmy's run in with Piers. It may cheer you up to know that as an ex editor of a couple of sleazy newspapers over here in the UK he is pretty much reviled.
Here's a clip of Room 101, a show in which celebrities try to dump in things they hate and for Ian Hislop ( Quiz Show panellist and satirical magazine editor) one of his choices was sleazy Piers. NB You can tell from the comments that the shows host Paul Merton doesn't think much of Piers either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QfW58Efcck A radio show debate about Piers, again with Ian involved and TV Presenter Jeremy Clarkson who thumped Piers - slightly repetitive but worth it for one very very rude Piers Morgan joke. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJtrRwOi2xo&feature=related |
|||||||||
longhaired1 Veteran user Salida 316 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-07 12:14, Powermagic wrote: I just assumed he is someone who is (something that rhymes with "knowing") Simon Cowell. |
|||||||||
Cohiba Special user Michigan 749 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-07 17:44, Gilgamesh_The_Librarian wrote: What is Simon Cowell's reputation like in the UK? |
|||||||||
jimmyrook New user 15 Posts |
"I am sure there a ton of come backs that would have broken him quickly to smile rather than directly lie about the effect. PM was close in his guesses and you can not fault him."
Teller once said that "Magicians are honest liars" was it wrong to say "yes I just did that" our job as magicians is to suspend reality for the audience long enough to make then wonder, wow was that real? If I had said, No Mr. Morgan that was trick then I would have ruined the effect for the 2500 people in attendance that enjoyed what they had just watched. Piers believed that Nick was in on the effect and has signed 2 balls. He believed that somehow I switched the ball Nick signed in front of him with a double. Piers want not even close in his guesses so yes I can fault him. He attempted to make a fool out of me on stage and I didn’t let him. I’m not upset about my comeback I stand by everything I said and if I had to do it over I would still say the same thing. Further more, I did request to use one of the judges as part of the effect and the producers requested that I use Nick Cannon instead. |
|||||||||
longhaired1 Veteran user Salida 316 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-08 00:03, jimmyrook wrote: It's not a matter of whether you were wrong or right, rather that you wound up in a no-win situation. By using the line "I'm not the Masked Magician", I presume you meant that what was witnessed was an illusion and not a "legitimate" demonstration. I don't think that ruined the performance for the 2500 people, most of which thought it was a trick anyway. I don't think anyone here is telling you what you should or shouldn't have done, rather we're just analyzing the perils of presenting an illusion as a "real" feat. Again, if you substitute "trick" for "scam" it puts things in a different light. It wasn't a scam, it was a trick. |
|||||||||
Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
I'm going to take a leap and shoot from my hip for a minute. I'm hearing, or should I say reading complaints from magicians who couldn't cut it on AGT. I can now count on one hand how many magicians I've read complaining about the show in one way or the other. To me it sounds like a lot of sour grapes. It's a television show based on a talent contest. There is no difference between why this show is on television and why magicians perform magic. They are both for entertainment purposes, and to make money. (Don't try and tell me magicians don't want to make money)
I think it would be more beneficial to the art of magic if those who try out for AGT and don't make it to stop complaining and making excuses and just take it as a valuable experience you'd never normally ever get. Some of you actually take it too serious. To those who have auditioned but didn't make it, share with us a positive experience that the rest of us can benefit from. Just no more sour grapes please.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
|
|||||||||
jimmyrook New user 15 Posts |
I am not trying to present my experiences in any way that is complaining, negative, or to come off as a “sour grape”. I wrote my story so that we as a magic community can learn from it, both good and bad. I hope reading my story gives magicians that would like to audition for the show an inside idea of the process.
|
|||||||||
Gilgamesh_The_Librarian Elite user 408 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-07 23:19, Cohiba wrote: Pretty good really...we mock him a bit for being slightly "up himself" (egotistical) and for wearing his trousers very high up the waist !!!but on the whole he is pretty respected and I dare say liked. The general opinion is that this is a guy who knows what he is talking about and is very honest. |
|||||||||
Floyd Collins Inner circle Ohio 1633 Posts |
Jimmy,
Keep doing your thing man, you did right by now exposing anything. I know someone who made it quite far in AGT, last year and before he went on to see who would be eliminated the back stage director sat her clip board down and he saw a huge X over his name. Of course the judges made it seem like they gave him the X when indeed they knew ahead of his performance who they would X out. I am just sorry to hear they jerked you around so much!! Keep plugging!! Floyd
No one said it would be easy, or did they?
Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage http://www.collinscomedymagic.com |
|||||||||
Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
But Jimmy you DID NOT JUST DO THAT. That was your mistake. I do not say expose it but do not challenge it since YOU ARE WRONG. YOu did lie, you did not just catch a paint ball in your mouth. YOU called yourself a "magician" We are illusionists. PM thought you were a stuntman I guest since you played it as a real stunt not an illusion. You recounted that Nick said it was an amazing trick. Do not have your own illusions that that audience believed 100% you did it as they saw it. They might be amazed and wonder "how did he do that" But far fewer wondered, how did he catch that in his mouth.
Buy challenging your heckler, you did aid in blowing this out of proportion. It all started, when you replied directly to your accuser about the actual effect. Yes this hind sight but I feel he would not have pounded you to hard if you did not respond or had a cute response that did not relate to the effect. It is something we call could learn. I work with kids and learned long ago, if you try to squash their theory when they call out "I saw it go up the sleeve." or some other response, the magician looks far worse breaking up his show to address the negative comments. Trying to beat the heckler is a tough and tricky game. As I said, I am not so sure I would have been quick on my feet to have the right comeback since I was not in the situation. But if you had watched this show over the years you would know not to fight with the judges. I would have have asked the audience if they had a good time and he might have let off. But as SOON as you answered his question directly about the effect, you set yourself up for trouble. A good lesson for all of us. It is best to diffuse the question rather than address it. If you think hard, you do not do it when someone walks up to you after a show and says they think they know how you did it. THey tell you their method and wait to see what you say. We are usually clever to not address our methods in this situation and that is what should be done with PM. Quote:
On 2009-08-08 00:03, jimmyrook wrote: |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Did you hear the latest? » » Americas Got Talent "That was all just a scam" (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.09 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |