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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Penn & Teller on America's Got Talent - sawing in half (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Fabricem
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Also great Chris!
Hansel
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On 2009-08-13 12:24, gulamerian wrote:
I have never ben a fan of Penn and Teller.


ME NEITHER!
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JVHarrison
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I loved it. In terms of exposure, the table was intentionally built like a boat -- no self-resepcting illusionist or builder would ever seriously consider using or building a prop that looked like that. In fact, P&T's exposure actually stengthens the illusion for other performers. Audience members that are able to recall the P&T "exposure" (and few will, as lay people are just not interested enough to keep track of magicians' secrets)will be fooled when they look for the method the next time they see the a sawing performed with a properly made piece of equipment (i.e. a prop that was not built to emphasize the modus operandi, like P&T's prop).
gulamerian
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So for argument sake. Why is it ok for Penn and Teller to expose magic and not the masked magician?
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On 2009-08-13 12:53, gulamerian wrote:
So for argument sake. Why is it ok for Penn and Teller to expose magic and not the masked magician?


Whether it's "ok" or not is for each to decide individually. But many are probably too young to remember that when P&T first came on the national scene years ago they were largely disliked by many (if not most) magicians. They were scandalous and caused quite an uproar. They billed themselves as the "bad boys of magic" and received the wrath of magicians for their exposures. Eventually, it all calmed down for the most part as magicians realized they were actually doing a LOT more good than harm for magic. Also, it became clear that these were two extremely inventive and creative guys and as more and more magicians were being fooled by what they did it became hard to criticize them for exposure. Kind of difficult to complain about them exposing the first part of their routine when you are completely fooled and amazed by the second part.

Bill
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I agree with gulamerian. Why do we excuse and justify this but complain about the masked magician?

Exposure is exposure- and to argue they aren't or justify it being a boat of a table shouldn't be reason to make this okay. Most of the Masked magicians props are silly and not deceptive.

Just because you like a performer should you defend their choice to expose? They even admitted they were exposing what all of the others were doing.

Does this mean everyone else should expose what P&T do?
gulamerian
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How is it that Penn and Teller are doing a lot more good than harm to magic? The same logic is used by the masked mafician. By exposing magic it will force others to become more creative. So how are the two different?
M Sini
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On 2009-08-13 13:20, MagicalDragons wrote:
I agree with gulamerian. Why do we excuse and justify this but complain about the masked magician?


Penn and Teller make a living as magicians. The masked magician makes a living doing TV shows exposing magic

Quote:
Exposure is exposure- and to argue they aren't or justify it being a boat of a table shouldn't be reason to make this okay. Most of the Masked magicians props are silly and not deceptive.


True most masked magician props are silly and not deceptive so you are making the same argument the guy above did when he said the table looked like a boat i.e. silly and not deceptive.

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Just because you like a performer should you defend their choice to expose? They even admitted they were exposing what all of the others were doing.


That's the great thing about opinions, everyone is entitled to one and entitled to support who they like. Yes, they did say they exposed the method but did they really? I mean did the audience leave the auditorium thinking they actually know how the illusion was performed? How many routines have you done when you handed out the cards for inspection and stated "Make sure this isn't a trick deck," do you not consider that exposure?

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Does this mean everyone else should expose what P&T do?


I think the most exposure Penn and Teller did last night was 'expose' mainstream America to a great performance.
Sam Weiss
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Okay so I just read through this page and it's clear A LOT of people here have misconceptions about Penn and Teller. Penn and Teller's exposure is in a way not exposure. Let me explain...

As magicians we see them expose a method to the sawing in half trick but if you asked laypeople watching at the end of their performance they would say "How did he do that?" and "That was amazing!" just like all the other four members of my family said while watching. The fact of the matter is, laypeople once they see the twist ending of the trick, assume the previous exposure was just a sham and never think anything of it. In fact, I asked my brother afterwards what they did and his description was "He sawed some lady in half and you could see all her guts and then she somehow appeared back on stage." That proves that the reveal does not register in people mind. In that way Penn and Teller don't reveal... it's there to enhance their illusion and to baffle people even more.

Also, for most of Penn and Teller's "reveal" tricks, they create an entirely bogus method to a "classic trick" so this way when people watch other magicians do their real version they are baffled because they thought they knew how it was done. Take their mis-made person trick. Go search it up on youtube. On the reveal they have this see through false bottom where Teller slides around in so he can poke his head into the cabinet boxes and it's very comical. Maybe then you'll all agree with me.

This is all what Denny Haney told me one day while talking to him. If you ask him he'll say the same thing I am. I agree with him 100% so that's why I'd thought I'd share these thoughts with you.


Cheers! Smile

Sam
"There's something that gets in your soul when you study magic,it's in your heart, and when you perform it comes across the footlights and into everybody else's heart..."
-Denny Haney
M Sini
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I agree with you Sam....and Denny.
gulamerian
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The same argument could be made for the masked magician. He exposes a trick on tv. The audience thinks they know how the trick is done. Then when they see the same trick performed by a compentent magician they are still fooled.
Sam Weiss
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On 2009-08-13 14:17, Mario Orsini wrote:
I agree with you Sam....and Denny.


Much thanks Smile
"There's something that gets in your soul when you study magic,it's in your heart, and when you perform it comes across the footlights and into everybody else's heart..."
-Denny Haney
Sam Weiss
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On 2009-08-13 14:23, gulamerian wrote:
The same argument could be made for the masked magician. He exposes a trick on tv. The audience thinks they know how the trick is done. Then when they see the same trick performed by a compentent magician they are still fooled.


He does straight up reveals so if I asked someone who watched his show they would say he reveals tricks whereas it would not be so as I have proved with Penn and Teller. There is a BIG difference there. Also, the Masked Magician does not come up with "bogus" methods like P&T do... he reveals actual methods we use.
"There's something that gets in your soul when you study magic,it's in your heart, and when you perform it comes across the footlights and into everybody else's heart..."
-Denny Haney
JVHarrison
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Well said, Sam. The things P&T do are nothing more than an updated spin on the classic sucker presentation. Someone above mentioned Backstage with the Magician as an example. What irks magicians, I think, is that the sucker eplanations come too close to an actual method, but so long as the audience is fooled in the end, I think the audience concludes that the sucker "exposure" was just a come on to reel the audience in and not an exposure of an actual method.

I'll just add: P&T headline nightly as magicians doing a magic show and fool the audience, in many cases, with the same methods they have allegedly "exposed".
Slim King
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Quote:
On 2009-08-13 13:39, gulamerian wrote:
How is it that Penn and Teller are doing a lot more good than harm to magic? The same logic is used by the masked mafician. By exposing magic it will force others to become more creative. So how are the two different?


You are 100% CORRECT !!!!!!!

Did they invent the illusion they exposed ... Did they invent the "DECEPTIVE BASE"?

NOPE !!!!!!!

The these creative geniuses invent something of their own and then expose it ... No problem!
Like the blast off thingy ... but not magic classics!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
magicmatt
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Sam I agree with you also. That's why I made the statement of "Back Stage With The Magician" illusion. It's revealing but then again it's not. That non-deceptive base was huge on the table they used.
Lucasw
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I agree with Sam.
Penn and Teller are great! How many magicians actually before that base version anyway? Look anything up on youtube and its all thin model versions...everybody just chill. I think your bases are safe....if they are built well Smile

Lucas
Slim King
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There are SUCKER illusions to be sure ... The problem here ..Penn and Teller DID NOT INVENT THE DECEPTIVE BASE ... No matter what the size they expose!!!!!
It's not theirs to expose!!!!
No different from the Masked magician.....

They got a gig ... they don't give a crap about the rest of you Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Servante
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I think what people will remember is that clunky base. I've never seen a base that thick!

So, when audiences see a proper base, I believe they will immediately say, "Well, this doesn't work THAT way."
Adam Wood
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Did you guys ever stop to think that their performances might have been designed to fool not only laypeople, but magi as well? When the audiences remembers this illusion all they will recall is he seemingly cut her in two for real! They'll forget the exposure because of the shock when seems to saw her into a bloody mess. I don't think anyone who uses a DB will be in any harm from this presentation. It's the in-depth explanations such as those from the Masked Moron that are destructive as they give away EVERYTHING! The psychology, the misdirection and almost every last nuance of the method. Remember, magi still to this day use t*** ***** and it is still unbeknownst to the audience even though people have well aware of them for years! Just like M's, both of them!

Here is a real horrible video some nut made!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXdpKF7EfKk
“The hard must become habit. The habit must become easy. The easy must become beautiful.” -Doug Henning



"Don't make magic impossible, make impossible magic!" - Adam



PEACE, LOVE & MAGIC!!!
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