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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Has anyone watched the manchurian approach and has TRIED the techniques? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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GarySumpter
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Hi all,

I recently purchased this 4 DVD set from Alakazam. To get these points out the way at the start, EXCELLENT DVDS, EXCELLENT PRICE, well done Alakazam, Anthony and the other guys involved.

I have watched the set twice and I am watching them again as I type this.

Having watched the set twice, I hit a big mental problem in that, the 'methods' taught are so simple that they don't give me the confidence that they will work. I have been in magic for 17 years and I have an inbuilt mindset that methods involve direct and methological processes that end in the desired result. I know what to do and when to do it.

With the methods taught on TMA, there aren't really definite steps that you complete, move on, complete, move on (in my opinion). Its very much a 'see what happens' type of performance.

I have spoken with Amit Badiani (from TMA DVDs) about this problem. Amit is a real gent and a really nice guy. After talking for a while he encouraged me to simply TRY the ideas given.

That evening I went for it with my ex girlfriend, probably not the best subject but very forgiving if things don't work.

The magnetic fingers went fine, magnetic arms was even better. However when I went for the hand to eye fixation induction, literally nothing happened. Maybe my fault, maybe she wasn't conditioned properly, I don't know, all I know is, I felt very silly.

Having mentioned this to Amit his advice was to keep trying as all subjects are different. Totally valid point but not easy when you start out. I don't want to keep trying and failing.

So really I am reaching out here to anyone else in my boat (or who has been). What do you do? Where do you go?

I am VERY keen to develop my skills in this area and wont be giving up.

Many Thanks

Gary
WillBox
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Hi Gary
I haven't watched what you're talking about so can't comment on that.
What I would add though is that framing the context for hypnosis is just as important as the techniques, because in a way, it is just as much part of the technique (framing expectation, perception, locus of control etc). See, the fact that you felt silly implies that you were 'holding the power' of what you were doing, rather than releasing it into the process between you and the person you were hypnotising. I think the 'be the hypnotist' mentality of confidence is something you can only really achieve with time, because false confidence (the sort that marshal sylver throws about) is too often confused for ego and smugness which has two effects: a harder fall if it doesn't work out, and increased chance of people wanting to 'not let you get away with it'. It also makes people look like cocks.
As a metaphor, there was a magician called Chan Canasta on british TV in the 60s. He would frame his card tricks and probability-based mentalism as 'curious experiments' which resolved him of any responsibility if they didn't work out. In my mind, this is a good way to frame hypnosis, in a kind of "lets see what happens" way. I realise its easier said than done, and you'll have to go away and think about it a lot to blend such a strategy with your individual personality and style. But once you do, you will then develop a natural confidence for it that is far more powerful than pretending to be confident. This is just my personal take on it, others may disagree. Anthony wrote a decent piece about framing the context for hypnosis, I think it was in a follow up to RIP and is on his blog somewhere.
Kind regards,
Will
GarySumpter
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Thanks for your thoughts Will.

Gary
Harry Guinness
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Hey Garry,

As one of the 'other guys' if only as a cameo I can tell you it does work!

As Willbox says, them perceiving you as the hypnotist is important. If you gig regularly use that as an opportunity to try some stuff like magnetics hands out, don't underestimate how mindblowing that can be for some specs, you are literally taking control of there limbs! If you are doing for example an invisible deck presentation do magnetic hands and get them to name the first card that pops into your head the second your hands touch. <pointless-plug> You could also try my coinbend presentation from the DVD </pointless-plug>

Another thing I'd suggest is don't over think it all. The hardest question to answer is when a spec asks 'how do you hypnotize people?', the only answer is really to tell them it's done exactly as they saw.

Don't let yourself feel silly as you're doing it, if you're not confident it's gonna work you won't come across with the presence. Next time you're in a social setting with some friends and also some people you don't know, ask your friends to introduce you as Gary XXXXXXX, he's a magician and a hypnotist. The three simple words 'and a hypnotist' instantly will put you in a position of power when it comes to it.

Another thing is to work with more than one person, if you do magnetic hands with three people at least one of them should go under properly, this also helps convince the others as they will see other peoples hands move and think holy feck, he can control everyone!!!!

Fundamentally, don't lose confidence, keep trying and see yourself as The Hypnotist and others will to.
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"Harry knows what he's talking about and gives it to you with no filler. I'd give it a 9.5/10." Tyler Kerner
GarySumpter
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Thanks Harry, I do know who you are and thought you may pop up Smile

I am going to persist with this, that's for sure.

Gary
mota
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There is some very good advice here. Another thought is this...

When you talk with them prior to the induction explain that hypnotism is a state of complete focus...like an athlete in the zone. Tell them for them to experience hypnotism when you ask them to experience something they must relax and focus with all their attention on that one thing alone, that one thought alone. The greater their focus, the more they will experience trance.

This may help you.
Amit Badiani
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As mentioned in the DVD use the C.I.Q method, Compliment, Introdution, Question, with this you are building rapport with your subjects. Once this is done make sure you have a good pre-talk, the pre-talk doesent have to be long at all, but should be straight to the point so the subject knows what they are expected to follow as Mota has pointed out quite rightly. In my pre-talk I also mention " Hypnosis only works if you want it to work," not entirely a true statment but gets them focused, wherby you can add more statments such as " so if you want to feel good, you will allow this to work for you".

Gary I will email you my pretalk.

Amit Badiani
GarySumpter
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Thanks for your thoughts Mota, and Amit, thank you as ever!

Gary
parmenion
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Besides, I think hypnosis like pickpocket or others very specific area not fit for everybody and it's good.
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
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mindpunisher
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I do believe that we influence others by the energy we give out. If you feel silly your subjects will feel silly. You will transmit your feelings on to them. Its a basic truth of influencing others.

Hypnosis is as much about creating an atmosphere for the phenomena to happen by itself. that's why the "techniques" are simple. Because they really are simple.

However with experience you will know exactly how to apply them at each part of the induction. And more importantly you will know insinctively how to generate the right energy through your words and body language.

If you watch the dog whisperer and how he influences dogs by changing the owners energy you will see what I mean.

I have known for a long time - long before that tv show that humans respond in similar ways.
bobser
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I’ve just finished watching the last of the 4 DVD’s on The Manchurian Approach (TMA).
So...
First of all I didn’t learn anything knew on watching the first 2 DVD’s which were mainly based on the actual ‘how to hypnotise’, but I didn’t expect to (indeed Anthony Jacquin told me I wouldn’t). BUT... I WAS reminded of a couple small but beautiful things that I’d maybe misplaced along the way. And for me, That’s just as good as learning something new. I guess if I wanted to nitpick I might suggest that I would have included a locked hand presentation to the set. On listening to Gary Sumpter’s problem of the hand to face I would recommend a hand lock (for someone new to hypnosis) as both a great technique to get them into the state and also a wonderful convincer. When they’re sat there with their eyes wide open unable to release their hands it really can blow them away.
The rest of the package with the four guys together I thought was excellent. I think Anthony picked a great presenter/questioner in Chris Harding, not just because he is probably the world’s top somnambulist but I thought the lad did an absolute superb job. He came across as friendly, intelligent and honest (a complete must for that particular gig) and I have to believe he himself will go far. I greatly enjoyed the comments from Ant, Kev and Amit, but perhaps I would have wanted Amit to say a wee bit more during the conversations. However that’s maybe just his style (Amit’s) in so much that he only speaks when he feels he’s really got something to say. I actually found Amit’s hypno style (during the street performances) quite intriguing, in that it was less presentational yet utterly assumptive. I loved his natural confidence when he forgot the credit number and simply re-boshed the lad whilst he checked the card, extremely interesting and funny. As was Ant’s head wobbling affair when he put Chris Harding’s hands over his ears and told him he wouldn’t hear the laughter. I watched it several times and found myself laughing aloud each time. I also enjoyed watching Harry Guinness for the first time. I realised of course that the reason WHY they were doing several similar skits was because we were watching TMA in real time and in a way they were all ‘in class’, so to speak, trying and retrying these same effects.
All in all I actually believe it’s hard to find fault with any of TMA DVD’s. The whole idea of such a learning vehicle is to deliver the goods. TMA absolutely delivers. And of course to communicate. And true communication is four things: what’s said, what’s heard, what’s understood and what action is taken. I believe the first three are highly professionally demonstrated in TMA. The fourth of course, said over and over and over again on the DVD’s (quite rightly) is to make perfectly clear to the viewer that ‘you have to go out there and DO IT!’
So, for me, this set contains everything one would need to both hypnotise and bring hypnosis into the world of performance mentalism. In fact I think The Manchurian Approach might be considered a must for the shelf of any working mentalist. It’s something Anthony Jacquin I’m sure will take an immense amount of pride in. Oh and well done Alakazam. Both the filming and the packaging are absolutely first class!

bobser
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Tommy_McRock
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For me, moving from stage to stage is about the patter and keeping their focus (my personal pet issue).

To be honest most times I find people do something annoying to trip it up, either asking random quesitons at incconvenient times or their arms moving in wierd/random directions for the magnetic arms bit... directions where they're never going to meet. Annoying, and worth remembering 1 in 5 are somnambulists.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2009-08-16 10:48, GarySumpter wrote:
That evening I went for it with my ex girlfriend, probably not the best subject but very forgiving if things don't work..........
Maybe my fault, maybe she wasn't conditioned properly, I don't know, all I know is, I felt very silly.


I've actually re-read this part and it made me laugh out loud again. No disrespect to its author, rather that I and every other person involved in hypnosis has been there, and yes it is dreadful (LOL again). But y'know what can you do? And the answer is 'carry on'. I think fractionisation is extremely important, especially in hard cases. I was at a client's home tonight for therapy (I'm fine by the way, it just reads funny). To cut a long story short: "she's not going, she's not going, she's not going... Oh sh-t the dog's humping my side" (I kid you not) Somehow she recognises what's going on, sits up and smacks a fairly large Fido (changed the name to save any embarrassement) in the face before leaning back into the chair again, "yeah she's definitely NOT going, she's not going, she's not going, stay positive, be the hypnotist, she's NOT going", and bang.... she slumps in a way people who 'go' do.
The session went great after that.
Just for anyone's information I wasn't completely sure where I was but gave the instruction for her hand to raise into the air and for her to giggle a little. She actually brought the house down with laughter, I thought she was going to die.
Her husband had entered the room earlier to try and get the dog out but it wouldn't go. So he had just stayed. I saw him giggle when she smacked Fido in the mouth. And he laughed like a drain when she laughed. He even apologised later for Fido trying to impregnate me between my fourth and fifth ribs (painful but not entirely unenjoyable). Any, like I said: carry on-carry on-carry on.

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
doktorp
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Hy everybody

I'm a magician from switzerland. I'm used to perform.
yesterday, I've just finished watching the 4 dvd's. I've read RIP before. So I was thinking, that I was ready to go.
Searching for my first subject, I landed in my parents appartement and the winner was... my father.
After a short indroduction, what hypnosis is and what it isn't, he accepted to be hypnotized. Bingo, I thought.
I did two set pieces and then a hand to eye induction. Guess what... NOTHING! Smile
I did try the lifting hand. Nothing.
After the whole thing, he told me, that he just felt relaxed (better than nothing) but he was completely not in a trance. He is a very critical, logical person and last but not least, he is my father. maybe, I've just picked the wrong subject and maybe, it is the same with magic. the parents are not the best audience, you will have.
What did I learn from this? A LOT!
1. It gave me confidence in the whole process and handeling
2. carry on, carry on, carry on...
I'm not frustrated at all, but as it was my first try, I wish, that it would have worked a little mit better. Smile
well, I will continue and I hope, I will have success with one of my next subjects.
Patrick
Harry Guinness
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Family and friends tend to be ridiculously poor subjects, they fail to see you as The Hypnotist and it takes quite a bit of work to make them see you that way. You also need to go in extremely confidently. If it is your first time ever hypnotizing someone you should tell them you've been doing it 5 years, never mentioned you are going to 'try' anything with them. Trying allows for failure and even implies failure, that's why when you stick someones hand to the table you say 'try and move your hand', hypnosis should not be something you try to do, it should be something you do.

Also, I've, regrettably, never been hypnotized to any real degree so have no experience of it but from what I hear from people I bosh is that they really don't know if they are hypnotized and will constantly question it until they see and feel some proof and even then will be unsure. It is a myth that they go to 'sleep', they will still hear every word you say and can be very aware. It also depends on what their internal model of hypnosis is.

Best chance to try it is at a **** up of some description where there will be friends of friends you don't know. Get your mates to introduce you to their mates as Patrick the Hypnotist or at least mention it if they ask about your job or whatever. It is much easier for them to see you as The Hypnotist than for anyone else to as they don't have any assumptions about you.
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doktorp
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Thank you for your answer, Harry!
I usually try new magic effects first with my friends and my family before I perform them at a payed gig (for strangers).
Now I think, that it is completely different with hypnosis. The "stranger" a person is, the better it will work.
The good thing with this theory is, that there are much more strangers out there, than friends and family. That means, a lot more subjects... Smile
Thanks!
parmenion
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It's logical Smile
I tried my my dog and he didn't work because he knows who I'm, then I tried with the neigbour's dog and it worked very well.
Anyway Anthony is a very likeable man and very smart, it could be a very good new 007.
I bought some time ago his reality is plastic but didn't get-in( perhaps I was not ready).
These dvds gave me the envy the re-read carefully his book.
It's great because it's good and the compagnion dvd also.
The 4 dvds set is very good ( excerpt the 4th but it's matter of personnal taste)
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
<BR>Oscar Wilde experimentaliste <br>
<BR>Artist pickpocket Professional
<BR>
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MiketheMagicDude
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1. Trying to hypnotize someone who does not believe you are a hypnotist (i.e. your ex girlfriend) 10 times out of 10 will not work.

2. Trying to hypnotize someone when you do not believe you are a hypnotist will not work 9 times out of 10. You need 100 percent confidence in yourself. This is described in detail. If you do not believe what you say will happen, why should your subject?

3. I think anthony et al laid out a pretty nice set of steps to follow...and then thoroughly explained the fact that there is not a set procedure to accomplish this etc. etc. It is a liquid sort of thing.

4. I really really enjoyed the Manchurian Approach, but you should seek other information. Study Study Study...and most importantly practice practice practice. (on strangers preferably) Study not because Anthony didn't include everything you need to know to achieve what is on the tapes, but study because there is more information out there and it will help you to understand hypnosis better the more you have taken in, in different words etc.

I suggest you watch AGAIN, and really pay attention to everything Anthony says and what he means between the lines. It seems like you missed a lot. Most of your questions are totally answered in these DVDs. Read reality is plastic. Practice.

This is not like a magic book or dvd where you can just read/watch the method and then be able to get from a to b. You can not skim to the "good parts." You kind of have to know everything. Being confident with the concept and the material will allow you to be more confident in your presentation. you have to be in control at all times. If things are not going "right" you need to take control of the situation and make them right...or simply not let it be your fault. You are The Hypnotist. Never let them think you are not. Failures can be their own...not necessarily yours Mr. Guiness Did an excellent job of this when he suggested to the subject everything he would say is true. The subject did not go with it all the time, but Guiness remained in control and led the presentation in the direction he wanted to go. He did not get discouraged and stop and say "oh I guess this isn't working. Thanks anyways"

Keep up the good work.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-08-18 20:13, Tommy_McRock wrote:
For me, moving from stage to stage is about the patter and keeping their focus (my personal pet issue).

To be honest most times I find people do something annoying to trip it up, either asking random quesitons at incconvenient times or their arms moving in wierd/random directions for the magnetic arms bit... directions where they're never going to meet. Annoying, and worth remembering 1 in 5 are somnambulists.


They can ask questions....just pace their ongoing experience ...what ever they say for example " wow are my hands really moving together or am I doing it myself?" Just pace their experience and lead them... " Yes that's right...are those hand moving together on their own or are you doing it by yourself?" ...." its a strange place to be...to really wonder whats happening....as these hands continue to move closer and closer in their own special way....taking all the time they need....just like a magnet pulling them together.....and you can wonder which hand will touch which hand first....." etc...

Anything that comes up is part of the experience it is not interrupting at all...

You can even ask them questions " what are you experiencing just now?" Let them tell you ....pace it then lead it..." that's right it does feel that way doesn't it...and that's ok to let it continue as those hands come ever so close to gether..closer with each breath each word I speak..."

You can even link unconscious behaviour to the movement...

And as those hands come closer together....your unconscious mind can begin to prepare your body...in ways that only your unconscious knows....preparing it now for a delightfully relaxed state....and to learn something amazing about hypnosis.....thats right but not yet.....(response potential and fractination) not until those hands come completely together.....only then you can go all the way into deep trance......thats right it feels like a magnet as those hands come to gether now...etcc..
Cyberqat
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Watched the DVD twice, then tried the exact sequence you did with my wife and she was gone at SLEEP....

Then I fumbled, not sure what to do next,tried too big a jump in suggestion and lost it all.

That was my fault and NOT the fault of the course. I also bought his book and I think its a valuable read. What I should have done was go **gradually** into more and mreo challenging suggestions. She was responding well to the physical stuff so the next step shoudl have probably been heavy and light hands.

But Im convinced my biggest error was just losing my sense of confidence and direction after the induction. Frankly I was suprised it worked so well, I was half expecting to fail though I "front" well having done street magic.

Projecting confidence is *absolutely* key. If you don't believe it is going to work, it wont. SO much of hypnosis depends on the beliefs of the subject and they wont believe something you don't. Remember, if you are doing it right, what seems simple to you will seem magical to them, and then they are half-way there.

An expierenced hypnotist here at the MC has made a comment a few times that I like. There are 3 different experiences in any hypnotic act. Your experience, the subject's experience, and the audiance's experience. They are all different. Your experience may seem banal but it is your *job* to interpret the other two experiences for those experiencing them and make them magical.

In that, its not very different from any other sort of magic Smile

Now it helped me a lot that my wife has both been under hypno-therapy a few times AND she has supreme confidence in me as a magician. (Lord knows why Smile Shes seen me fumble a few times in early routine tests.)

Don't give up. Find yourself a better volunteer and tell yourself it *will* work and it will. Smile Also, I recommend "reality is plastic" as a companion for the disc as I felt it dealt better with the process of gradually testing and deepening the trance.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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